I have named this post after what I plan on discussing, in order that the next guy who is interested in finding an answer on this topic doesn't have to spend a couple of hours on a wild goose chase. Now to the topic.

          I have been weighing the options of discussing my issue with my parents and have come up with certain reasons why I would benefit from their inclusion and many more reasons why not to discuss this issue with them.  I decided to look throughout GYE to find some hadracha on this topic and I could not find a single topic that pertained directly to the issue that I am having.  These are the various forums that I looked at, each one in its absolute entirety.  Each smiley is a link. :)  ;D  :)  :)  :)  :) 
          I would like to discuss the issue with only one of them. The reason I feel this way is that I feel by confiding my problem with my mother I would still not have to feel ashamed from my father.  In truth, the reason I feel like this is because by confiding in only one of them I am keeping the issue a "secret" of sorts, but by telling both of them it gives it more of a group feel (which is not something I want to do).  The reason that I have this wish to discuss this issue with them, is due to the fact that I am starting to date in a few months (hopefully with Hashems help I will have a streak of over 90 days by then).  I feel that since it will eventually come a time that I have to discuss this issue with my future zivug (second to last smiley face)  I feel that it would be prudent to not have my mother, or father for that matter, get blindsided as much as the girl is.  Basically, why not let them help evaluate how to help me go about in revealing this issue, as opposed to me going about it with only the advice of lesser people (not that all of you, or any therapist or Rebbe is lesser per say, rather they are my parents and do know me best).  In reality my mother and father already do know that I struggle with this, since my mother is my CE accountability partner (worst and best move ever).  However, my mother only saw that I was circumventing the filter, she never saw what I was actually viewing (I have since blocked that capability).  In addition, my father did catch me many years ago when I was about 17, although I would assume that he thinks that at the time I was struggling with an issue that a 17yo deals with and stops when he is no longer a teenager.  I don't think he thinks I don't have an issue, in fact I'm pretty sure that he thinks that I have some sort of issue with this, just not nearly to the degree that I am actually struggling. 
          I have a few basic questions.

• Do I tell them?


• If so, do I tell one or both, if both, together or separately?


• Is there any difference between telling a parent and telling a wife(future/current) or brother?


• To what extent?


• What role do I ask my parents to take in helping me, in the event that they want to?

          I would like to hear your answers, that is why I am not sharing my own first.  I must also add that this is not not being asked in any way due to a compromised situation (I have not started dating at all-My parents are happily married-I get along with both of them as well as can possibly be imagined) .

          Rising Up

My personal feeling would be not to tell your parents. It'll be different when you tell someone you're dating, anyway.

Furthermore, although your parents may know you best, they're also going to have a very difficult time being objective about how they view this situation, and also their advice for dealing with it.

Read from this post in Chazak Ameinu's Climb onward until the end of his thread. Lots of input on this issue from many GYE'ers.

Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 21 Feb 2011 16:55:

Thank you Yosef Hatzadik for finding this for me.  It is very helpful and provides a lot of insights as for my situation. It does help me a great deal.  I must add however, that my situation differs greatly from that of Chazak Ameinu in that I am away in Yeshiva and I am 22, whereas he was still 15 and at home (home-schooled no less).  My main concern is the Shidduchim issue.  I must also add that my parents are mechanchim. 

RisingUp,

In a perfect world our parents would be the go to address for all of our mental/physiological/spiritual/emotional needs, just like they are for our physical needs. Unfortunately, the real world doesn't work like that. While parents have TON of good intentions (and we all know which road is paved with that) they are simply incapable of dealing with their children in an in-objective and impartial maner.

There is an unfortunate rule these days that proves this point: most mechanichim, even those helping the 'kids on the fringe', and even the most experienced, talented, best, etc. - almost all have at least one child thats 'off'' (or at least not up to par with the rest of the family). And while it may seem like the mechanichim are unworthy of being in chinuch, the truth is that they are still great mechanchim - with SOMEONE ELSE's child. When it come to their own children, they see things in an entirely different light and this blinds there ability to help themselfs (i.e. their children).

If you need a new suit - you can speak to your parents. If you have questions about a your date, your parents may be able to help you - but get the opinion of your rav/rebbi as well. When dealing with Yidishkeit (at most levels, but especially of the nature we discuss here) talk ONLY to your rav/rebbi.

O

p.s. if you dont have a rav/rebbi then your in gehacked tz'uris, but for a totally different reason . No fear, I'm sure a pm to someone around here can get you hooked up with some solid Da'as Torah

Wow, O, you signed up just to post that? That's pretty impressive.

RU I think I'm with O on this one. See my PM.

oblum wrote on 22 Feb 2011 07:15:


Thank you for the response (and I do echo the words of Maccabee about signing up- So thank you!).

      In response:  I was actually sent here by my Rav/Rebbe so I do have that taken care of.  I know exactly what you mean by having parents that deal very well with other peoples issues but not their own children (this is not a reflection nor an indictment of my own parents, rather it is a well known issue).  However, the main issue I am concerned with over here is Shidduchim.  I am going to begin entering into shidduchim very soon.  It is not that I feel guilty of what I have done and therefore think that I don't deserve a girl who I am actually deserved of.  No, that is not the issue. If it was , than I wouldn't be asking this question. Rather I am concerned, not entirely with but mainly with the issue of confronting the girl with my issue.  As Rav Twerski has said.  Therefore I feel that going out with a girl and than confronting first my parents and than the girl in the span of a couple of days would probably turn my life topsy-turvy.  To tell the girl but not my parents may be a possibility, but I do not see its merits.  If I tell the girl, which I will have to to a certain extent, she will definitely tell her parents who in turn will tell their Rav.  All of which is not a concern for me assuming the information is kept private.  However, my parents if left in the dark will either be blindsided by a call from the girls parents or Rav, or they will just ask me why the dating process has to come to a momentary halt a little more than half way through (if I were to go out with numerous girls, which I hope not to, they would get very suspicious).  I am probably wrong in my cheshbon and it is that which I specifically ask for advice about.  As for asking my Rav this question.  I will, I have just found in the past few weeks ever since joining GYE that when asking my Rav about an issue (GYE related), supplementing my issue with the advice given out by tried and tested members has proven very beneficial to the decision making process.  Thank You!!

Rising Up

RisingUp,

I actually signed up a long time ago. Take credit for pulling me out of the closet, god know it needed to happen.

Color me dumb, but what exactly is it that you feel you need to tell you prospective match? Are you really planing an telling her that your a typical, classic yeshiva boucher? I would love to watch you on a date explaining how horny guys are these days, and how strongly the YH has us wrapped around his finger (i.e. to act on those urges)!

While its important to admit addictions to YOURSELF, it would be foolish to go announcing the obvious to the whole world. (I call it "the obvious" as any normal Yeshiva Boucher knows exactly what his friends are up to - the same stuff that he gets up to. Everyone is trying to hide it from everyone, although we all know the truth about how common it is. Look around here if you dont believe me!). Some (most?) girls are also too nieve, and even after a lengthy explanation wont get what your talking about (no matter how much of the anatomical they *think* they understand). I honestly cant see what good would come from it.

Are you going to share with her that you tend to talk Lashon Hora from time to time? How about that one time that you woke up late and missed zman krias shema? And lest we forget how little Kavana you hade will lighting Chanaka candles (you were good for most of them, but why were you thinking about hot dripping wax when you were on the fourth light??).

A girl needs to be able to look up to her husband and to think of him as the greatest person to ever live. You will hopefully outgrow this issue in no time. Or maybe it will be a long uphill struggle. Either way, you will need to show your (future) wife your good best side. Marriage is enough of a struggle as is. Dont fan the flames by giving the other side more negative points to dwell on when the going gets rough (and sorry to break it to you, but it will! It will also get very, very good BE"H).

I hear the drums beating. The mob is murmuring. The shouts are getting louder: "How can he advocate hiding things from ones spouse???" And so with all due respect to those that masquerade as one of ours with their long flowing beards and pious looks, yet spew the venom of Chochmas Hakum and are nothing more than the Eirev Rav in our midst, please direct your chants towards Torah Greatness of previous generations.

In one of the books published (in English) since his passing, R' Avigdor Miller, z"l is quoted as having the following dialog durring a q&a session following a shuir (quoting from memory):

Q: The Rav mentioned that marriage is like acting; that we always need to have a 'mask' on our face. How long do we need to live in this falsity?
A: As long as you wish to remain Married!! Getting along in marriage is a difficult thing, and sometimes we have to act happy/content towards our partners even if we dont feel like it. We need to always show a kind/concerned/feeling/warm/empathetic/etc. side to wards our significant other - even if we dont feel that way. That is the only way to keep the marriage happy! (apologies to R' Miller who had a much more eloquent way with word, I'm quoting from memory here).

So to sum up: should you be telling your date about your personal struggles? Not if they haven't taken over your life to a greater degree than the next guy (i.e. your no worse than anyone else that she will date, and hence aren't considered a 'Ba'al Mum'). Should you discuss it with your parents/shadchan/parents-in-law? No. This is a personal issue between you and Hashem. You can come here for practical advice and encouragement from fellow mountain climbers. You can talk to your Rav if your are looking for more of a Torah Hashkafa on the matter (these forums seem to have a more liberal ends-justify-the-means atitude. Probably a good thing, as I havent found to many Torah sources that tread lightly around these subject). R' Moshe was even asked how to do teshuva (his reply is printed in Agros Moshe). Perhaps someday in the future you and your spouse will have the kind of relationship where these revelations wont cause the boat to rock to much. Ironically, at that point you will probably not feel the need to discuss it anymore. In the mean time please keep family conversations family-rated!

o

p.s. dont take this long drasha too personally, its 'for the googlers'as well,  as you mentioned in your first post