Whats wrong with calling it a tendency? I say PO-TAY-TO you say PO-TAH-TO.

I just spent a long time going through this thread from begining to end. I must say that I found it to be one of the most fascinating I've seen since joining GYE about a month ago. I must personally thank Gesher, and all the other participants for truly helping me to work out many of those things that were bothering me, but I couldn't put my finger on. There were so many questions and beautiful answers given that I feel a little overwhelmed by it all. As a Rebbe for many years, I like to organize all of my thoughts. So I will attempt to organize and summarize what I've seen here so far, and maybe sprinkle in my own 2 cents here and there. Once I was doing it, I figured I may as well share my synopsis with everyone, on the outside chance that someone may find it beneficial. Let's start from the beginning:
geshertzarmeod wrote on 14 Feb 2011 10:18:

Gesher brings up many questions, but basically one vitally important one. "How is it helpful to call it an addiction, which implies that it's not my fault. Wouldn't it be better to take responsibility for my actions?"
Probably a question most of us had when first learning about "the addiction". I think the basic answer that we received from the Heligeh GYE members was that only after they were able to acknowledge that it was out of their control, were they able to take responsibility for it. I understand it like this. If I think I should be able to run a marathon, and I never make it past the first mile, I will get depressed. I will give up. In my mind I am sure I can do it, but I keep failing to do it, So why should I keep trying? I am obviously a failure. But then somebody comes and tells me "You idiot!! If you never ran a mile, YOU CAN'T RUN A MARATHON!!! If you want to run the marathon, you must build up stamina, do a little more each week, until eventually you will be able to do it." After hearing that I realize that he's right. I can't do it - not yet anyway. But it is that thought which get's me back to training, so eventually I will be able to do it.
That's what we are dealing with. As long as we think we should be able to do it, but can't, we just give up, and give in. If I am so screwed up, so why try?! Even if we do try, we continue to fail, because we are going about it wrong BECAUSE OUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS IT IS WRONG!! Once we are told that we can't overcome it, then suddenly we realize that we are not screwed up worthless good for nothing Reshaim, and that with the proper training and perspective we eventually could do it. Therefore, it is our admission that we can't do it, which allows us to do what's necessary to get it done eventually.

Ok. On to the next point. How can I know if I am actually addicted to lust, or if it is just a bad habit that I can change on my own? The answer to this one, I think, is pretty simple. Pay attention to what's going on!! Most bad habits do not manifest themselves in extreme ways, and are controllable almost all of the time if you pay attention to it. But if you find yourself knowing you are doing the wrong thing, and not being able to stop even though you want to, this goes beyond habit straight to addiction. Her's how David/Rage put it so beautifully:
David/Rage wrote on 15 Feb 2011 15:49:

I have nothing more to add to that.


Ok. Point 3 (pay close attention. There will be a test on this next Tuesday!!) 
While following a 12 step or similar type of program, do the classic methods of Chazal have any role to play? Can we work on the program, while still using the old methods? Or do we stop with everything but what the program teaches us? I believe Zemiros Shabbos says it the best here:
ZemirosShabbos wrote on 15 Feb 2011 19:07:

I also add what Yosef Hatzadik quoted from Dov:
Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 16 Feb 2011 16:27:


I would like to add one more point. The Rabbanim teach us that fiery Mussar was meant to be given to normal healthy functioning Yidden, to keep them on the right path. They are like diet and exercise, or the proverbial "apple a day" to help keep the doctor away!! However nobody would tell you that for an illness you should just have your "apple a day" and all will be fine! (except maybe the fruit man) So just as vitamins and exercise are preventative measures, so too is mussar. But once we are sick, we still need to build our defenses, while fighting the disease simultaneously.

Last thing. I promise.  ??? Gesher asked a question that bothered me from day 1, and until tonight   this morning  :-\ I had no good response. Here it is:geshertzarmeod wrote on 15 Feb 2011 20:22:


What a great question!!! I saw 2 responses and I'd like to combine them both.
ZemirosShabbos wrote on 15 Feb 2011 20:40:


And This:David/Rage wrote on 15 Feb 2011 21:08:


I would add to what David/Rage wrote, that really, Love and Lust are complete opposites. When I lust, I want for me. When I love, I want for you. Lust is about taking, and love is about giving. If our intimacy with our wives is all about taking or filling a need for ourselves, then it is absolutely feeding the addiction, in which case it must be stopped completely. But, if we learn how to change the focus of our intimacy over into an expression of love for our wives, then not only is it not feeding the lust addiction, but it is actually converting our neural pleasure centers from lustful - focusing on ourselves -  to loving - focusing on our wives. And if every married man was addicted to loving his wife, and giving her what SHE truly needed, than being addicted, wouldn't be so bad after all!! ;D ;D

Thank you Reb Yid. I agree with everything you wrote.
I think it might just take some time for it to sink in
and 90 days for the attitudes to really take effect.
In the meantime one day at a time!
Thank you again!

Sick Man Getting Well wrote on 20 Feb 2011 01:46:


and Dan Quale says P-O-T-A-T-O-E.

Who needs a "just for fun" thread? Reb Yosef Hatzadik seems to keep us having fun in every   thread!!!
Thanks for the comic relief!!

Reb Yid wrote on 20 Feb 2011 19:12:

Yosef, that was spontaneously generated by Reb Yid. I promise!

Thanks, all of you, for the compliments. It is appreciated.


Although we try to keep the long running humor threads in their proper place, a short post to keep the smile on our faces is welcome anywhere.  (This is to defend myself from Me3's attack!)

I'm glad you clarified the rules.

Me3 wrote on 20 Feb 2011 20:54:


The last you you flew into a rage, the veins on your forehead looked like they are gonna pop! i was very afraid of what might happen if I were to antagonize you again.

I figured that a thread entitled "Clarity Please" is a good place to clarify the rules.


Now we can be friends?

I'll think about it.

Gesher Tzar Meod wrote on 20 Feb 2011 20:11:

Hey Gesher (thanx for the mareh makom by the way, amazing thread)
we had a few jinxes lately in the hi thread, didn't we?
[I'm just clarifying not ch"v saying hi in the wrong place and crashing the servers]

Thank you Reb Yid for putting together this thread.

Very cute, mefatfait!
:D

I'm sorry for getting your name wrong on your thread.
Will you forgive me?

HEY GESHER. NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE.
MIXEDUP HIJACKED HIS THREAD. IT HAPPENS.

[I DIDN'T INTENTIONALLY PUT THIS IN CAPS]

Your'e a real good man, gesher. and TZ
(BTW, I changed and added to my name to make the idea clearer and maybe cooler. although now I'm thinking maybe it would have been better to start with something like John Smith to begin with. I don't know too much about this stuff.)