Here's the scenario- I am 20 years old (not too old) and I have been struggling with this addiction for close to 7 years. Recently a shadchan set me up on a date, and it went very nicely for a couple of weeks and then we broke it off. During those couple of weeks of dating, I noticed that I was clean the entire time. This is after struggling with the addiction up until my dating period (never being clean for more than 50 days at a time). A few days after(ie:yesterday), i got another call from a shadchan. I told her I would get back to her. Now my question is, I don't think it's a good idea for me to go out, because I have yet to prove to myself that i am in control of this addiction. Maybe I should first try to have a long streak of being clean before going out. Or maybe, now that I see that while I am dating it is easier to be clean, I should date. However, marriage isn't a hospital! What should I do? ( Remember I am only 20 years old) Thank you

hi -

I checked .. I cannot find a source in the Torah stating that, "Thou shall have a few good, clean day in your life, before getting married."

so what to do:

1. recognize that you are a NORMAL,young man - with healthy drives and desires
2. realize that you live in a society which takes that which is normal and distorts it into something which is not normal
3. the message of s*X is blasted into your brain at an incredibly large rate - day in, day out.. and the mind cannot tell the difference between the fake stuff and the normal real stuff - so you get confused, and crave this fake stuff being blasted into your head.

4.you've already realized that there is a problem,and willing to work on yourself...and improve (That already says something special about you! !)

the more you improve yourself - the better chances you will find someone who is also improving themselves.
the down side is if you wait too long - your zivug might get tired of waiting for you, and find someone else.

everyone has issues.. that is what life is about.. the main thing is to be growing and moving upwards!

dov.ii

and while it is true that marriage is not a "hospital" ,it is a great blessing and a healthy outlet of self-expression in the intimate aspects of our personality

so like DovInIsrael said, as long a you are aware of the problem,and taking serious steps towards self improvement ,then you are doing fine and may you forge ahead with hatzlacha & beracha (and with guidance from a madrich -that would help greatly)

as long as you realize that marriage will not solve all your problems,and you are aware of the work you personally need to do,  you are following a proper path.

You don't have to be totally cured (probably no such thing) before starting to date.  But, a certain degree of sobriety can be very helpful.  It's not a din in 90 days, but that is one goal you might want to aim for.  It sounds like you might be there already.

Of course, remember that it's not only the quantity of sobriety that counts, but the quality as well.

Re: Kedusha-
Thanks
I have not had 90 days of sobriety yet. I think it is a reasonable goal to set for myself before i start dating, which means i should wait on it for a bit.
Also, I like the point that it is quality that counts also. This makes me think that when I was clean during my dating period, there wasn't so much quality there. This is maybe another reason why I should wait on dating. To give me time to have quantity and quality days of sobriety.

i personally found 90 days on the chart far too much for me... as an addict my mind was programmed to believe I could to do anything, could not achieve anything...was not worthy, etc.

thinking about 90 days - and ruining my clean record just added more stress.

in stead, I aimed for 3 seconds as a goal.
and once I mastered that - I just kept doing it over and over again.

dov.ii

Yes, absolutely - one day (or one hour) at a time.  That's not a Stira to having a longer term goal to aim for. 

if it works for you - by all means do it!

part of my recovery was setting achievable goals -
and making the rules in a way where I could win.

I had enough failure and disappointments in my life.

dov.ii

It sounds like you:

a) realize you have an addiction
b) have been trying to stop for a considerable amount of time
c) have proven to yourself that you can't do it on your own

This was my pre-marriage story with the exception of item a).

Stopping for 90, 190 or 290 days is not really the issue. 

In my experience I was sober at times for over a year and eventually went back to my behaviors with the difference that I then added some new ones.

I have found that what I need is recovery.  That is very different from just stopping doing certain behaviors.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard an addict say "I thought that marriage would help / solve / improve my addictive behaviors, but it didn't" I wouldn't be a millionaire but I could go out for a really nice dinner

The nature of my addiction is that it is the "answer" to all my problems.  It makes me numb to the pain, anger, frustration, resentment and other bad feelings. 

As an addict I have a whole host of character defects that not only don't go away in marriage but get aggravated, aroused and break open in full fury.  And guess what my brain tells me the solution is?  Yep. LUST.

So for many of us,  Marriage -> greater stress -> greater need for relief  -> greater need for LUST.

I don't mean to rain on anyones parade but age 20? You have hopefully a very long life lying ahead.  You have the blessing from Hashem to realize you have issues to address that many of us never realized or were willing to face.  If you take this opportunity to really find a solution, not just stop for a bunch of days, you will probably have an AWESOME life!!!! 

Whatever road you take in the end your in the good hands of HASHEM so just focus on doing what is right. 

So nu....ask him what he means by recovery!!! This jooboy is dropping gold here, amigo!

[quote="Jooboy" link=topic=3483.msg95565#msg95565 date=1296699003]


Brilliance sometimes takes the form of properly arranged words. This is brilliant.

Hi, my opinion is that since u admitted for urself u r an addict there is no reason to start dating b4 u washed through the 12 steps and deep into recovery , wish I'd had this opportunity back than

I decided not to take the shadchan's offer and to wait a little bit. There were many other reasons that factored into my decision, besides this addiction. Also, I think it will be better for me if I work on myself and this addiction a little more before thinking about marriage. I am not sure how long I will wait, but that will depend on when I feel I am ready to approach this subject again. Thank you all for your insights.

life is too short wrote on 02 Feb 2011 19:30:
A question for you, 'young man':

Why do you use the word 'addiction'? Is it because porn, fantasy, and zera l'vatola are aveiros and yet you keep using them? Or is there some other reason, like that you see you are truly sick in the head? Or is it something else totally?

I just wonder.

Thanks, Chaver.

Dov

Re Dov:
I think it is kind've a mixture of both. It has been extremely difficult for me to stay away from these avaros, and there are also times that I think that maybe I am sick in the head.
Thinking about it..........Maybe I don't fully understand your question, for it seems that they are both connected. If you think you sick in the head, its bec your dong these aveiros. And if your doing the aveiros, then you can feel like your sick in the head.
I don't fully understand. Please explain... thanks