To Uri, who writes so beautifully about what's going on inside him:
or,
"About minyans, love vs lust, and - of course - thinking about sex a lot":

One simple answer for all, that anyone can do: Don't think so much. Especially about yourself. What? :o
Aye Caramba! Quick! Damage control!!!

But how?
This sounds like a very, very tall order for an addict, or for someone who is kinda young, or for someone who is naturally highly self-aware and jam-packed with feelings pretty much all the time. You (and many of us) have all three qualities. Ouch. We are experts at "focus-inward", and typically only focus outward when it's all about what we are getting or not getting from the other person.

Shockingly , the typical perscription for this problem (that is working for me and others I know) is to start getting more and more used to thinking about others, for the rest of our lives. "Others" means anyone not attached to my own "desire/feeling awareness thing". Some call that "thing", the ego. That list includes Hashem (of course), your family, your friends, co-workers, people you walk by in the street, etc. Basically anyone with a will of their own (...not yours). So far so good?

In real life, this means doing things that make us a part of, rather than apart from. Being apart from - even especially in a room full of people - is our typical state. It's got to change, for sobriety and sanity to grow. But how? By being frummer, better? Not really.

Just check these practical applications out and see if you think they would be good daily exercises for your own "focus-outward" muscle: in general, davening primarily for others rather than for me (except in real emergencies) [tzadikim do this by focusing strictly on tza'ar haSh'chinah, but [i]we [/i] are doing it just for anyone's tza'ar but ours, for now]; actually functioning (even in small ways) as part of a group [minyan can do this if you find a way]; accomplishing things that are not for me; not taking that second look at the pretty woman (just had to do it myself five minutes ago!) even though it hurts cuz i'm and addict as looking/lusting about it will just work out my "me-me-me muscle", no?; having a nice, long conversation with anyone and making 99% of the topic them, rather than me; doing a mitzvah (or two) for G-d's sake, rather than because people will see, or for olam haba (B"H, I rarely think about olam haba - it's too selfish in practice, though folks who treat hashkafa as reality will tell you s'char mitzvah is not supposed to be a selfish pursuit at all - so what? It is for me! So, till I'm ready for a different attitude towards s'char, out with it!); keeping a halacha because we don't want to; being good to ourselves because we don't want to (going to a meeting, taking a shower, learning some Torah, cleaning up the apt, making a friend, etc.) [in s'forim that's called "mis'chased im atzmo"]. Get the idea?

An ikkar for success in this, is not allowing yourself to get bogged down by anyone (that includes you) in wrestling about philosophy (may be mislabeled as "Torah"), motivations, the existence of altruism, or whatever else seems to really matter. It's all nice but an addict can't afford it. Our eye must remain on the prize: Going outward rather than inward. Period.
Yes, we need Hashem's constant help to do this the right way and for it to lead closer to actually being useful to Him and His people. But as Mesillas Yeshorim writes, there are some midos that lend themselves to knocking down a bazillion bad middos all in one fell swoop. For an addict this is one of the big ones that do that. The particulars are less important that most think. Besides, He can help just fine if you ask for it, and He will. Uh, oh, that's praying for yourself! Well, for this we can make exceptions... ;D
Try it. Don't think about it. and don't talk about it much, c"v, either. Thinking differently - even really hard - will not generally get us to be any different on the inside. We live in "asiyah". Doing changes us, and even changes the way we think and are on the inside. That is why Hashem gave us so many more mitzvos to do (as the RMB"M writes). After doing this for a while , our lives become wildly interesting and less predictable, too! (it is actually rather boring to think about myself all the time, you know!) We can also get sober and stay sober more easily.
Love! ...and that's an order.
Dov

Gadlus has just been written Uri.

Try take R' Dov's words to heart

bs"d

Wow, R'Dov, gevalt geshrign, i was already a fan of your posts, but this is like - wow, i am speechless!!! Pray for us that we should be zoche to live like that! You, R'Guard and London once gave me similar advice concerning marriage, and it really works. I hope i can do it on a "bigger scale" as well. After reading your post i just wanna run out the door and DO IT!!! :D

Wow thank you so much dov.Im honored to have you post on my thread.the eitzos that u give are gold.ive tried this before,gowing outward.but it proved too difficult at the time.i was feeling very depressed and had no koach for others.now im gonna try to make it my top priority again iy'h.shkoyach-uri

How about starting by picking an 'addiction buddy' - you daven for someone and they will daven for you? (How about tRyInG or Tomim etc?)

I realize that what Dov was saying is much more in depth and all encompassing than that, but heh; its a place to start (not nec finish!)

chl wrote on 09 Aug 2009 18:36:
No need to run out, chl, just do it right at home ;D

Uri - About going outward:
We can't do it alone, obviously, and we often can't do it very comfortably, either. So we need extra help from Hashemw/this. We also can't suceed at this if we are doing with an expectation of getting something in return.
You write that you have tried it before and mentioned that challenges you had then. Thanks.
Here's a big yesod (for me) in recovery that may help you w/this, too:
We start doing things for others simply and mainly because we have faith that we need to, in order to stay sober. We believe it is the only way to get us to be unselfish and hence mentally OK people. In a sort of paradoxical way, it's selfish! And that's great! It makes it much more palatable to us (at least subconsciously) in the begining weeks, months or years (whatever!). It really works that way. Weird? Nu, so what's so bad about a little more wierdness? ;D (that's also a bid yesod for me, BTW...)
So, am I doing the favor for my mother in order to help her out; to be "nice"; because it's Kibud Av/vo'Eim? Not necessarily in the beginning. I may do it because it is the only way for me to recover, to stay sober. I can think of no better shelo lishma bah lishma than this, actually.
No matter how you slice it, though, we always need Hashem's help to do it right.

                   

what i really love about you dov is that you are very normal.i really admire your down to earth appreciation of being down to earth .i will iy'h try to devote my days primary for the good of others.shkoyach-uri

bs"d

Uri (JA) wrote on 09 Aug 2009 20:25:


i love that as well!

dov wrote on 09 Aug 2009 20:16:


right when i was reading this, my baby daughter walked up to stand next to me. so i got up and sat with her on the couch, played with her, making funny faces while she was eating her breakfast. I wanted to stay by the computer and read the rest of your post (which i just did now), but instead i got some delicious time with my daughter first - in your z'chus!
thanks again, dov!

makes me wish i had a child of my own
i wrote a song,chevra.you can find it on "break free"
its not the best talent-wise  :-[ .but it comes from the heart 

Dov,
Thank you for your posts to Uri. Like others have said, your advice is so REAL and wholesome.
I would say I love your posts the most on GUE, but I'm having a hard time choosing between yours and Bardichevs...
And Uri, you have a lot on your plate.
Do you realize that Hashem has given you unusual qualities in spiritual and emotional perception? These qualities are making your life hard right now but they are precisely the ones that are going to get you out of it, and make you into ONE AMAZING PERSON as you spread your wings.
You will imyH touch many peoples lives for the good. Actually, you already are  :D !!!
kutan

bs"d
Uri (JA) wrote on 10 Aug 2009 08:01:


absolutely the best! people tried to tell me before i became a father, but there's no way to feel that way until i actually became one.

Beezras HaShem you'll get married bekarov to your zivug hagun veamiti beshaa tova umutzleches, and will be able to build the most magnificent bays neeman beyisrael! with many wonderful kinderlach! And they will have an absolutely amazing Tatti!

Hope your days going well Uri.

I still cant believe that song...!

my days going pretty well,thank you.
whenever i feel a need,i start writing a song.
so far its working allright
i posted another song btw.same thread.
enjoy chevra-uri

2 absolutely amazing songs and its only going "pretty well"??! :o

Im in total awe. And thats my final word!

chl-amen
kutan-for a small person you say mighty big words
mom-stop.if u continue to embarass me im gonna disown you 

Chevra,what youve all been commenting on my songs is al very nice.But i have something to tell you:i didnt write them.
I can barely put sentences together in song.When I sing,people usually leave the room.
I dont know where these songs came from.But theyre not my own.
They are a gift from shamayim to help me recover.My neshama received them by fax and dragged me to the computer.
Why do i keep starting new lines?(i think its because ive been spending so much time writing songs)

Anyway,so things have been allright at this end.writing songs has had such an effect on me,you wouldnt believe.the expression does good for my stress,and i feel proud of myself for the first time since my 18 day streak.
Ive been listening to my songs over and over,shepping such nachas,but acutely aware that my talent has nothing to do with these songs.im not being modest.i am not modest.but i know myself.and i hear the depth in these songs.ze mashu mashu.more to come.pretty tired at this end(2:30).with love to all-uri