I posted this elsewhere, but I felt that it deserves its own thread.

Addictions aside for a moment, anyone whose Emunah is weak will have trouble controlling the y"h for arayos.  That's why, among other reasons, that it's more important than ever that Emunah be properly taught to our children - and ourselves.  Many people say that they believe because they're frum (like, lehavdil, adherents of other religions believe in their religious dogma because their religion requires such belief).  However, it should really be the opposite: We're frum because we believe that it's the Emes.

I recently completed a wonderful series of Shiurim on this very topic by Rav Dovid Sapirman of Toronto.  Rav Sapirman recently started the Ani Maamin Foundation, to help strengthen the Emunah of our youth.  He has spoken about the need for this at no less than two recent Torah Umesorah conventions.  Rav Sapirman believes it's no longer acceptable (if it ever was) to sidestep the issues of Emunah that bother our young people (and may still bother them when they get older, because they've never been answered). 

There are three sets of Shiurim:

1.) "Know What to Answer to YOURSELF" (existence of G-d, Torah MiSinai, and other topics) - set of 10 CDs.

2.) "Unraveling the Mysteries of Divine Providence" (this world and the next, human suffering, the Holocaust, and more) - set of 6 CDs.

3.) "The Oral Torah: Divine and Eternal" - set of 8 CDs.

I highly recommend these life changing Shiurim.  They can be ordered directly from Rav Sapirman by contacting him at dsapirman@gmail.com.

If you'd like to try them out, or for those who can't afford to order the CDs, the Shiurim are available for free download at this link:

www.divineinformation.com/audios/

Kedusha

Yasher Koach Kedusha.

Yes, Emunah is a very valuable tool in dealing with the Yetzer Hara, but as we describe in the Attitude Handbook, it can only PUSH US to take the right steps of recovery. It can't always stop us once we're under attack (I'm sure Rav Amram Chassid had emunah, as did Rabbi Akiva and Rabbi Meir - see Kedushin 80-81).

Also, see the TaPHSiC method for more on learning how to balance Emunah that works with Emunah that doesn't work.

Right.  My point was that Emunah is necessary, but not sufficient, to succeed in our battle with the y"h. 

Of course, in the case of an addiction, additional steps will always be necessary.

Im starting with you twice in one day sorry. In my not so humble opinion as a mechanech teaching classes in emuna is to be blunt a very stupid idea. To a kid a class is a class and that means twenty to seventy five percent concentration. The kids dont say o goody i was waiting for a class in emuna. Emuna is supposed to be fed in little baby spoonfulls. A classroom rebbe with achrayus and yiras shmayim finds the right oppurtunity to slip it in without special classes. The same goes for parents. They have to slip these things in not preach.

wrong,dead wrong,it is not a stupid idea,when in classrooms,you have boys that know what to do with the carcass of an ox that gored another ox,and whether a date that is worth a prutah here and not can affect kiddushin or not,but are totally clueless about God

you don't just "slip in" emunah and yoraas shomaim "Agav"

its the basis for everything

you don't "preach" it ,and a mechanech needs to have emunah himself, and practice it in order to give it over to the kids properly

if he doesn't have it in him,let him punch a clock like the rest of us

"Emunah" is no less important than Hilchos Shabbos,which by the way,is not learned in most yeshivas either as part of the program,so most boys are clueless when they get married.

and then when these boys have to finally leave yeshiva and real life hits them,they have no tools to deal with life with courage and calmness

so to be equally blunt,NOT to have emunah classes is a very stupid idea

Frumfiend The star wrote on 24 Nov 2010 17:52:

I think this is exactly what Rabbi Sapierman is trying to do.  Not only is he trying to teach emuna, but teach the mechanchim how to teach emuna to kids.  Most talmidim in the yeshiva system wouldn't even dare to breach any emuna related question for fear of being called an apikorses.  I believe the Ani Maamin Foundation is trying to break this barrier and give parents and teachers the tools to deal with these issues.

sorry you missed the point. How long does the kid remember about the ox and the prurah. Is it part of his life? do you want a kid to be able to say by rote the yesodos of emuna. Is that going to make emuna a part of his life. When he has a crisis that calls his emuna into question is he going to go searching for his notes on emuna. Emuna doesent grow in a vacum. It either grows from life challenges or from someone who shares life with the kid. When dad teaches it aint a lecture it is dad sharing life. A rebbe has to share his life with the student not lectures.

I see what you are saying,dry lectures are not effective,but the fact remains is that this whole topic is very much underemphasized.

i think there are two types of emuna and that might be the reason we have conflicting suggestions. there is something like 'intuitive' emuna, the simple uncomplicated emuna that we naturally have within us. that is reinforced every time we hear our parents say something with true feeling that testifies to there belief. for someone to go through life with that emuna intact is precious and makes for smoother sailing.

this emuna is something which if you focus on it and try to grasp it and feel it (so to speak) you can run into problems. why should i believe? who said it's true? and so on. at that moment you lose the intuitive emuna and move into intellectual emuna. if you do not have the resources and the answers to your questions you can become very shaky in your yiddishkeit. there ARE answers. and if you can satisfy your curiosity with them and move on you can re-enter the intuitive emuna. the intellectual answers can be taught like an academic subject. but they will stay an 'academic subject', without fire and life. the intuitive emuna cannot be taught, it can only be transferred by osmosis.

in today's open society the questions are much more readily available and people are likely to stumble upon them. for that reason the answers need to be taught. but there is merit in teaching by osmosis as the experience of emuna cannot be taught any other way.

my 2 cents

FF,

Check out the shiurim.  They are anything but teaching by rote.  They confirm our Mesorah with scores (probably hundreds) of proofs. 

Torah Umesorah, and presumably its Vaad Roshei Yeshiva, agrees that this needs to be taught, and they have been working with Rav Sapirman for the past few years.  Historically, children who had questions in Emunah were scared to ask them and, if they mustered up the courage, would usually be called apikorsim.  As a result, we have countless children from the most frum homes, whose foundation of Emunah is on quicksand.

No need to call it "Emunah."  Call it something else.  But, the information needs to be presented to children, and their questions need to be answered.

Stuart, we're not talking about Emunah Peshuta.  We're talking about Yediah - knowing that our Emunah is correct because the evidence, which supports our Mesorah, is overwhelming.

Bh we are getting the issue clear. It is well known that reb chaim volozener said that no one ever went of the derech because of his emuna questions. It maybye however that the tuma in the street causes a weakening in emuna and the questions being ask are symptoms of this weakness. If that is the case then we might need to strengthen it through shiurim. This way the kids feel there are answers out there even if they didnt get them or forgot them.
thanks chevra this is a great discussion

In former times, Emunah pshuta may have been enough.  Today it's not.  Our children need a solid foundation of Emunah, so when their beliefs are challenged, they will have plenty of reserves to fall back upon.

When I wanted to post something in this thread, I got the following message:

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

:o