Agreed.

Confidence you may what to check out this article from Aish.com:  www.aish.com/d/w/48952241.html  titled "What is Love?"  Hatzlacha

Dear Confidence,

How are you doing?

  --Eye.

To comment simply on one aspect of the post, I have also experience mzl on dates as well. I am not thinking about lust actively, but I guess it is a function of talking to someone you are attracted to, especially if you are seated close to each other on a couch for example. Since I am not actively causing this, I would have to think it is ok...

StrugglingGuy wrote on 19 Nov 2010 17:31:

...and try not to sit so close; and probably not for so long, either!

Doing great.... relationship is doing great.

I have been clean since nearly mid summer but had a week and a half of falling about 2 or months ago i think.

also, when i come to szl its not becasue im in that moment thinking of bad thoughts. rather, simply having normal conversation and enjoying her company can cause it. i really appreciate the 7 questions posed a couple days ago kedusha. at first, i had a bit of hesitation in being able to answer each one of the confidently, but now, i look at them and am bothered less and less.

i need to continue to evaluate the situation and make sure i am not nit-picking too much. The issue that has bothered me for a while has been one of intellect. its not that she is stupid. i know she isn't. but she carries herself in a girly way - one which i confused for a lack of intelligence for quite a while. i realized though that i cannot evaluate it during hte date but rather after the date i should reflect back and see if it was good enough for me. i know her midos are in line and she is a tremendous tzadekes. the whole world knows that . i just want to make sure she's the tzadekes thats right for me.

also, i think its just troubling diffrentiating whether she makes me happy, or am i deluding myself and lusting even though i don't even realize it. sometimes its hard. in general its hard to tell whether you are enjoying a person because they are giving somethign to you or because you simply enjoy their personality. kal vachomer with someone of the opposite gender.

i started reading garden of peace. i think i am ready to commit myself to that. but theoretically, the concept of totally giving of oneself could be done to anyone or even anything! am i just supposed to be choosing someone that i find it easy to give to? someone that i want to give to?

Confidence wrote on 21 Nov 2010 01:45:
Here's just one simple guy's opinion on this: YES! YOU'VE GOT IT! If you find it EASY to give to them, and WANT to give to them, you're 90% of the way there!

I'm not sure what the remaining 10% is, but I think it has something to do with laughing (in a good way) at the corners where they're not really so strong or comfortable or capable or anything. If you can each laugh at the LACK in the other, it will be easy to love the strengths. After all, no one is strong in everything, with everyone, all the time [that's how He made us].

Sorry to bud in, but I think your thinking way too much into this.  Of course, its a big decision, but it looks like your on the right track and she contains the basics to be a suitable ezer kenegdo for you.

Personally I don't think reading Garden of Peace right now is the way to go, except maybe the chapter in the back about dating.  In fact, it may scare you away from marriage altogether.  For sure read it in a year or two no matter how your realtionship is going.  (I am sure I'll get some dissenting views on this).

Regarding the lusting, this will probably exist no matter which (attractive) girl your dating.  I think the attractiveness is good to get you going on a second or third date with the person before you get to know each other.  If you really didn't like her personality, you would know by now, even if she's the prettiest one in the universe.

And one final point, which I am sure you know from reading this site is that dating and marriage doesn't get rid of this lust problem and addiction, no matter who you marry.

Looks like your on the right track.  Hatzlach raba.

As Stuart said, marriage will not get rid of this problem.  I would like to add that it will cloud your judgment when dating, which is why it is very helpful to have some good sobriety before starting a relationship and, of course, to maintain your sobriety thereafter.

Where does that leave you, now that you're already seeing someone?  That's a good question.  Ideally, I would advise you to take a break from all dating, including with this girl, until you have 90 days clean.  If you do things right, that will only take 90 days!  This is the greatest gift that you can give your future spouse, whomever it may be.  How do you feel about that?

Now that I stuck my nose in this, I am going to have to disagree with R'Kedusha.  Of course it matters how severe the acting out was before, but I think if you have the right intentions, your aware of your weeknesses you will be ok.  Going a full 90 days clean is not so simple even when your doing the right things.

You've got a good thing going, and I don't think its worth dropping.

It goes without saying that you for sure seek daas torah not just us virtual people.

Thank you, Stuart.  I certainly don't want what I said to be the final word. 

There's nothing magical about 90 days, of course.  My, point, though, is that we need some degree of recovery to propery make major decisions like this.

Personally, I was able to stop acting out shortly before I started dating my wife, and I stayed clean throughout our dating and engagement, totaling over 3 1/2 months.  To my great sorrow, I fell three times in one week, around 5 weeks before we got married.

Had I not stayed clean while we were dating, I can assure you that the engagement never would have happened.  My guilt would have showed, and it would have almost certainly caused my (now) wife to end the relationship.  Other people may be better at covering up their inner guilt.  However, there is still the serious concern that the flames of unbridled lust will have an adverse effect on the prospective husband's decision making capability.  Hamavin Yavin.

B"H i've been clean since nearly mid summer with a week exception about 2 months ago

I a writing something that was told to me in the sense of sharing. Everyone can either take it, discuss it with their mentors and counselors, or ignore it.

A  Rabbinic figure who is very well respected and experienced in the field of shalom bais told me "If you do not respect the young woman do not marry her."

May you all only know bracha.

Eye.nonymous wrote on 20 Nov 2010 16:49:

About sitting close together, Ideally yes you are right. It is conceiveable to date while standing next to each like bowling or something like that. you can also date at a resturant seated across from each other and I think that can help as well. However, there are times like when watching a movie (pg13 or lower of course)
About the length of time, though , I mean that is what dating is..you speak to the person or just talking oin an apt setting where it is inevitable that you will sit close together.

last part got inverted a lil bit sry but I think you get what I was tryong to say