kutan shel hachabura wrote on 10 Oct 2010 16:40:

Thank you kuten and zemiros.

Kuten, firstly even a one liner post just letting me know that you are there is comforting. Secondly, I say this to you and anybody else who feels the same way. Every one of your responses and chizuk is helpful, mechazek and makes me feel good and want to continue. At the same time one of the things which I think helped me get this far was that I changed my attitude. I accepted that the purpose of my posting would not be just to receive chizuk from others or to write sensational achievements or falls. The main benefit I have from posting is that I am able to write about my struggle, difficulties and successes knowing that there are people who care with whom I can share it, whether they write or not. This way the chizuk I receive from everyone are welcome boosts rather than my being dependant on responses.

Once again I cannot stress enough how much every response helps and how much I appreciate it, just that being dependant on them is not healthy. So, thank you for responding but please do not feel obligated to respond. I hope that I am understood. (I also hope that others on the forum might learn from this how to post on the forum without feeling ignored.)

Hows everything?

Ovadia,
You are cruising along at perfect attitude, er, altitude!
k
;D

ovadia wrote on 07 Oct 2010 10:34:

kutan shel hachabura wrote on 11 Oct 2010 13:40:

I didn't know that trucks could fly, but its still good to know that I am cruising. Thanks Kutan.

ovadia wrote on 11 Oct 2010 14:21:


;D

Ah, where I live in the USA, trucks fly.... NEED TO MAKE THAT YELLOW LIGHT...

Hello Reb Ovadia,

Your posts are inspiring. I share the same struggles.

I was wondering. How do you define a fall? Is it Internet browsing or shmiras anayim? Perhaps you need to set for yourself a  lower level for a fall and slowly work up to a higher level?

Thank you.

Dear Tefilaleani,

First of all Shalom Aleichem and welcome to GYE, as I see that this is your first post here. Thank you for your eitsa.

The issue of the definition of a fall really depends on each person and his level. To me personally it is the feeling of loss of control; of when I feel that if I slipped then I might as well go all the way; that I have anyway lost everything etc.

I don’t know how long you have been around the site for, but in case you don’t know there are two invaluable handbooks which you must read in order to gain a perspective, the right attitude and tools in approaching this struggle.
They can be downloaded here:
www.guardureyes.com/GUE/PDFs/eBooks/GuardYourEyes%20Handbook.pdf
www.guardureyes.com/GUE/PDFs/eBooks/GuardYourEyes%20Attitude.pdf

Regarding falls, in the attitude handbook, it says that davka when one has a fall it is an opportunity to reach very high madreigos. I am writing this as much and maybe more for myself than for you or anybody else here.

Hatzlocho my friend and keep posting.

Ovadia

Thank you HaShem for helping me through the day yesterday.

Please HaShem: Another day, just today.

I must remember that: RECOVERY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN MY LIFE

Baruch Hashem, and Amen.

My hatzlachos only came from my falls not my successes.

It sounds like impossible logic, of course.

The point is, the natural reactions of successes (pride...) are poison for me.

k

What Kutan posted just above represents for me, the simplest and most important attitude change toward the rough times and falls. Reb bards calls it "Keep On Trucking!," and he is so right, of course.

I heard it from Reb Tzvi-Meyer a bunch of times, read it in one or two seforim over the years before recovery, and yet all I actually paid attention to before recovery was the was the useless message of: "Keep trying harder! Hashem is on your side!...and if you are having difficulties and falling, it means you are failing." Yes - of course, in some respect that is all true, but so are all kinds of things that can be destructive to focus on in my daily avodas Hashem.

For example, in a class aimed at potential new ba'alei teshuvah, you would not elaborate much on killing the infants of Amalek, on arba misos beis din and the particulars of how they are administered, on the concept that a person is not really a full Jew/person unless they are married, the nature of slavery for non-Jews, and that a woman's eidus is not almost never acceptable in court.

We have no shame about these things, and they are surely the best path for us, being Hashem's Will, but you just do not showcase them for newbies, cuz they are lacking the hakdomos. They already have Western culture's hakdomos, so they will not understand it all yet. It's a matter of timing.

In the same way, the m'kubalim expend a lot of time making clear that Hashem is totally muvdal fro us in this world, that His Essence does not even have a real name we can use for it at all, and that We cannot even really praise His Essence. "...v'lo, (and for Him) dumiah tehillah (silence is the closest we can get to praising Him). Yet, every single sefer written for the purpose of spirituality, teshuvah, recovery, and for better avodas Hashem will always focus on the relationship we can have with Him! Now how do you have a relationship if all you are aware of is how transcendent and perfect He is?! It seems that even though both are true, the issue in actually being better Jews is what we are looking at. Somehow, we do have a relationship with Him and somehow, it is real.

The people who argue against this and say, "What are you talking about? His being muvdal is no stirah at all!" have a valid point - in theory. For someone who really feels the gulf between us and Hashem and focuses on it, good avodah may not easily follow. We are people, not books.

Also, there is the 'tall order' of perfect balance. True, we should remember that we are going to die. It is one of the most real facts there is about my life, right? But if I choose to focus on it and frame my actions in that context, I will need to balance it with a tremendous measure of faith/trust in Hashem, true appreciation of the present, and other stuff like that, just to escape the depression of the acceptance of my mortality. I believe this is obvious to a person who really delves into things like death, for example, in the true mussar way of Reb Yisroel and his talmidim - when painful realities start to become real on an emotional, gut level, the balance required becomes sudden emergency. And for the guy who thinks he has really accepted his mortality, but then discovers that he becomes surprisingly frantic when he is alone at night and sees a stranger following him...well, he obviously has not really accepted death yet. 

Oh my gosh, I have prattled on like crazy. Nu. lunchtime at work gets boring...

Wow Dov you made that so simple!

Ovadia, I thought you might appreciate this story I heard:

A group of prisoners who were wrongfully incarcerated in a foreign detention system devised a plan of escape. They climbed into the air conditioner vents and slowly made their way towards the free world. It was tight, dusty, hard, cold, strenuous, dark, rusty, and was taking forever.... Some prisoners realized that although their situation in Prison was unbearable the air shaft was 1000 times worse; they turned back to the roomy, dust-free, warm, well-lit, and better condition of their cell room... The rest of them stuck it out for a few more hours.

Well, the end of the story is that the returned prisoners suffered for another 30 years in prison it was terrible. They were however lucky to have avoided those dreaded ventilation shafts....

The escapees spent a fruitful, happy, and accomplishing life (with its ups and downs of course) in the free world.
They were forever thankful for those tight, dusty, hard, cold, dark, rusty, and long ventilation shafts...

Is it better to endure a painful transition for a better future, or remain comfortable in prison??!!!!

kutan shel hachabura wrote on 12 Oct 2010 13:09:


Dov wrote: What Kutan posted just above represents for me, the simplest and most important attitude change toward the rough times and falls.

Dov, from whom exactly do you think I learned this?  ;D ;D ;D

Tried-123 wrote on 12 Oct 2010 19:54:
Actually, I think 'comfortable in prison' is MUCH better than a 'painful transition.' Who wants pain? Who hates comfort? I think sitting on our and avoiding pain is a very sensible and natural and admirable way to live.

Except that -- I'm not the one writing the rulebook. And He sometimes has a different plan for us. And our job (Job One) is to fulfill His plan, not our own.

I'm sorry to sound all uber-frum & super-holy with you. I just wanted to make the point that I see no point in beating myself up for preferring comfort over pain. Even when I'm wrong. Comfort is nice.

Briut wrote on 12 Oct 2010 20:35:


I'll admit, that was not what I was expecting to hear
But your good

Comfort is something I love as well it is percisely for this reason that I endure so much transitional pain; I crave for the normalacy and health that I will hopefully g-d willingly attain if I do my work...

The crux of the issue is whether you really beleive that a better life awaits you through recovery...

Rock Bottom??