when i walk to shul there are2 paths both of equal distance. on the one path (starting at the corner of my block) there are a couple families of goyim who dress like goyim. she/they wear the "shorts" that cover maybe an inch of the leg and depending on the day, a pretty revealing T-shirt of any kind of revealing shirt. the youngest is probably 13 and the oldest is prob 15. (a couple families). pretty enticing, right? then once i pass that corner of the street from there until shul its very possible for any other female to be within my sight (even though i try to look down....its hard to stop yourelf from glancing)

on the other hand i can walk down the other path which (in my mind) is not used by as many people (based on the geography of my city) but to get to that path on my block there is a very frum family which happens to have 10 girls (OY VAY) they are very frum they wear tznius clothes with skirts dragging on the floor (maybe a bit exaggerated) but they go to their shoes. so maybe this path is better? except very frum girls turns me on (besides the fact that i want to marry a very very frum girl in a couple years im 16 now so when im ready for shidduchim i want a very very frum girls cus i veiw myself as very frum, at least i try to be but thats a whole seperate shmooz in 4 or 5 years) but the very frum and tznius girls really really turns me especially with the tznius way of dressing.

so if it better for me to walk down the first path and take a risk of seeing the immodestly dressed goy and seeing her skin (in her shorts and shirt) and possibly seeing other people as well? or is it better to walk the 2nd path and seeing the frum family? does looking at jews VS non-jews make a diff? and this is all just in case i lose control of myself and looking at them instead of the ground.....

IMHO you should work on yourself. This is all about you not your surrounding.

Sorry for being blunt but I believe that it's the truth!

Best of luck.

IMHO?
even after that answer the question still remains....im working on myself to be able to control my eyes, and that in itself is very difficult and takes a long time to do. but its always poss to have a fall and to look up, so with that POSSIBILITY in mind what sounds better to do. have the possibility of looking at jewish girls dressed modestly?  or non-jewish girls dressed immodestly?

just to add my 2 cents.
Yasher Koach for being carefull with your eyes. IMHO,the issue is deliberately looking at  "ervah" (nakedness Jewish or non-Jewish). But if u have a choice between passing  evrah and not passing by it,it would seem logical to avoid the exposure. The first accidental glance is not the problem,it is the second look and the lusty thoughts which follow. May Hashem guard u and keep u from sinning!

In terms of Jewish vs. non-jewish, there is no difference. In fact the main source to for the Issur of histaklus is from milchemes midyan which was dealing with the non jewish girls of midyan.  That is where Chazal derive the Issur of looking at any part of the lady, even her finger.

In terms of clothed vs. pritzusdik, it is mefurash in the pri medgadim and bach in siman 75 in O.C. that looking at ervah is more stringent.

Sounds like the Jewish path is the correct one to go with.

May you be zoche to unbelievable siyata dishamya in shemiras eynayim.  Be sure to say the special prayer for shemiras eynayim before walking in that area.

MT....trust me, i am saying a specail prayer. in fact im saying a specail prayer that I made up and had it translated for me. it has the oral haskama of r E Twerski. actually ill copy and paste it onto this post

אתה הוא שבראתנו עם יצרי אנוש ועם תאווה טבעית לנשים ואביזרייהו, טבע שיוכל לשמש את האדם לתוספת קדושה או ח"ו להיפוכו. אתה ציוויתנו להימול ביום השמיני להולדתנו – דבר שמתחיל ביום השמיני צריך להיות בר קיימא למשך כל ימי חיינו עלי אדמה, ובכן יה"ר מלפניך ד' או"א שתחזיק בידינו וביצרינו בעל עת וזמן להתחזק נגד היצר הבוער בקרבנו, ולשמור עינינו שהם סרסורי דעבירה, ולקדש את מחשבותינו שנוכל להתחזק להיות עסוקים רק בדברים של קדושה ולא ח"ו בהיפוך הקדושה, כן ברצוני לבקש ממך אבינו מלכינו שנוכל לתקן את כל המידות רעות ששוכנת בנו – ובפרט מידת הכעס הגורמת לאי-יציבות בעבודת השם ולחוסר כח המעצור, ושנזכה בעל עת לשמחת החיים אמיתית ורוח של קדושה, כל זה אנו מתפללים אליך בזכות יוסף הצדיק ודוד המלך ע"ה שזכו לקדושת היסוד ולתשובה, יהיו לרצון אמרי פי והגיון לבי לפניך ה' צורי וגואלי, אמן כן יהי רצון




You are the one who created us humans,you created us with a yetzer harah which give us a natural burning desire for women, a desire that can be used for holiness or g-d forbid for impurity. You commanded us to be circumcised on the 8th day of our life. Something that starts on the 8th day but must be maintained for the rest of our life. Therefore, may it be your will hashem our g-d and the god of our fathers, that you will constantly at every moment help us control our eyes from anything that will trigger our desires. And help us constantly control our thoughts and our fantasies from any image or idea or anything that will cause us to fall and damage the middah of yesod, including helping us in our middos and asspecialy anger. And that we will always be in a state of happiness of kedusha. Help us for the sake of yosef hatzaddik who controlled himself and for the sake of david hamelech who fell in this area but did a complete teshuvah.

WoW! That's Gevaldig.  I will take that tefilla for myself. Thanks so much.

not a problem print it out. in fact print a 2nd for a friend or a bunch and put them around your shul.....maybe if some1 writes "the teffilah of the shela" or some other famous name on the top it will become the teffilah that everyone will say ok maybe thats a bit too much

Hey,

Sorry if I was too blunt. My point is that both paths are normal to most of us (both have challenges). I see people on GYE complaining about the difficulties in the summer etc. My point is that I think that everyone is missing the point. There will always be challenges and we should be focusing on ourselves not our surroundings. The problem is not the girls, we are the problem! Again, this is only my opinion and I'm no expert, just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the prayer...

HS-

I hear your q.

Obviously, Installed has a point here that ultimately you need to work on yourself (that you can walk anywhere)

But for now, maybe go by the non-jewish girls. Of course, try to put your head down. I say this bec. like you I am turned on by frum girls and weirdly not by NJ girls. So psychologically it might not make a diff how physically attractive a girl is, rather subjectively what you personally struggle with more.

but dont go just by my word.

i want to point out an observation. my attraction to the frum girls i can really explain it but its cus those are who i want to be involved with. i want to marry a frum one....this probably wasnt so descriptive. but maybe som1 will understand what i meen

HS- I got you...same here
i dont look at women at the ballpark, remember them, and then wish to m*****.
It's the girls in the neighborhood, shul, etc.

well at the ballpark and ect i do have the taavah to look at them and think about them. but im saying its a different kind of desire and a diierent kind of pull....
but thank G-d im doing better in the ballpark typr of enviorment

so you want to go to a baseball game with me?

well i was never really a baseball kinda guy how bout football?? ;D