I'm seeing a big mix of married-folk oriented topics, topics that are relevant to everyone grappling with these issues, and singles relevant issues. While married people have their own struggles, it is a struggle that you are actively involved in, with much experience, as opposed to an added element of the unknown, a stress for many of us unmarried bachurim. I've seen the view expressed a number of times, that while many of us singles are of the opinion that 'pas b'saloh' must make life much easier- it is clearly not the case. Clearly, singles do have other issues to face as well, in terms of how to properly approach dating,  our outlook on married life and how to prepare ourselves for the real thing, in every way. Here is a thread where we can discuss any of such issues, as well as receive some input from married individuals, who can guides us in that which we have not experienced yet, how to work on things now in order to prepare for a married life of k'dusha, that we will all be zoiche to, b'ezras hashem soon.

Hey Shmiras,

What a great idea! You are 100% correct. We all suffer from the same problem but it is different for singles. I spent at least 10 hours browsing through the site and there are many unanswered questions for singles. I also think that we are all dealing with our problem but we didn't hit "rock bottom" because we don't have as much to loose at the moment (it's obviously a grave aveira but we are not accountable to our wives or children). We hit "rock bottom while on top" which makes a big difference. In one hand we are fortunate that we've caught ourselves before marriage but in the other hand we may be too naive about marriage.  Seeing how this problem doesn't get better with marriage should really shake us singles up. Ignorance is not bliss in our case. We should really try to shape up now. I'm 26 y/o and I stopped dating for now. I want to get this under control before I start dating again. I think that we all have an obligation to work on this prior to marriage.  This will be a battle for life but if we go into marriage with some strength,  we will b'h have what it takes to overcome this. BTW, you guys may want to read silentbattle's thread. He stopped dating, dealt with his issues, and then continued dating. He is currently engaged... He wrote a lot which it is great because you'll be able to actually see his progress and struggles. You'll also be able to relate to his struggle because he dealt with it while single. 

Installed.

Completely agree- I think in some ways were in a better situation because we can go into marriage well equiped, at the same time, married people to have an outlet, whereas singles have no mutar way to deal with tayva. We are definitely very well off though, that we recognize the need to deal with it now. I have to say, I wouldn't have gotten anywhere without friends who were comfortable discussing these topics. These forums are great for working our thoughts out, but I think a face to face discussion makes for that much more accountability. I'm friends with a good number of bachurim who have grown to real heights in this area. Call me crazy, but in a way I think its good to be able to not think about these things at all if we choose to, whereas married people can't avoid it which brings them back to a mindset of potential lust if not used in the right way. I think sex is very different than other addictions- other addictions, drugs, alcohol, requires dropping that lifestyle forever. Sexual addictions are differ in that a life without relations is (hopefully) not an option, as we all hope to be married. Its probably easier for singles in the sense that we have the option of dealing with addiction like other addictions- not thinking about it at all- as opposed to married people that need to live a balance of a healthy approach, but will definietly have it on their minds. I suppose both married men and singles have their own battles, some aspects make easier and some more difficult. Either way, I agree with you, its great that we have the opportunity to work on it now. If its any help, I don't know where your holding, but with tfilla and hard work, real goals are attainable. Personally, I've come farther than I've ever thought was possible, b"h. How long do you want to remain clean before starting dating again? It helps to decide on a very specific goal. I wish you much hatzlacha, and I think that GYE will help us all grow to greater heights. Do any married members have any insight as to what mindset singles need to have, and anything to be aware of that we may be missing in understanding? Any insight is helpful so we can perfect ourselves before marriage. Thanks!

Hey Shmiras,

I like your optimistic approach to this. I can imagine that real (as in non-virtual) friends can be helpful and you're lucky to have friends that are supportive. Most of my friends would think that I'm crazy for taking this seriously (normal behaviour etc.). I'm  hoping that my virtual friends at GYE will be enough. I'm currently "clean" for 14 days so it's a good start. I plan on dating again only once I pass the 90 day mark and after I speak to a rav (I don't have a close rav but I hope to work on that during this period).




Yeh, I'll second that.


 

Installed-

" I can imagine that real (as in non-virtual) friends can be helpful and you're lucky to have friends that are supportive. Most of my friends would think that I'm crazy for taking this seriously (normal behaviour etc.). I'm  hoping that my virtual friends at GYE will be enough. I'm currently "clean" for 14 days so it's a good start. I plan on dating again only once I pass the 90 day mark and after I speak to a rav (I don't have a close rav but I hope to work on that during this period). "

HEY! were not virtual at all! were as real as it gets! maybe more real than your friends who dont take this as seriously as you. truth is, i almost wrote "virtual" in my post too, but i changed it to "face to face" because i really feel that we are not virtual, but rather, existing, caring, real, friends, who are seeking to grow together. 14 days is great, certainly not easy. not trying to make you nervous, but keep your head up for any y'h kung fu that comes your way. it usually does over and over. it sounds like you have made a serious commitment and your real involvement on the forums certainly shows your strength and desire to grow. keep with it. i dont disagree with your holding off dating, although i am not an authority and do not know your needs. by the way, for me, the 90 day vicinity, was in some ways, the hardest time of my entire process of battling lust. my friends have reported the same. not trying to scare you at all, just to prepare, strengthen, build, for future battles to come. tactics are necessary, this is a real battle, potentially more difficult than an actual battle,  as it exists in your mind, with the potential for so much confusion, so a plan is necessary to win it. i dont know which rav or rebbeim you have access to. for me, althoug it was uncomfortable at first, i think speaking to a rav is extremely motivational and helpful, as long as it is someone you can relate to, be comfortable with and it is someone who is comfortable and understanding of the issues in todays world.

im guessing were the only singles on the forum and that the married chevra have nothing at all to add so looks like were on our own maybe we need a singles website, thread is not enough. it probably takes time to get a site up and running so im going to start making appeals now, if i show up in your shul come say hi  

I'm glad that I'm not the only one that feels this way  .

I'm having my ups and downs with the 90 day journey. It was extremely difficult at first, got a bit easier, but is currently difficult again. My y'h is telling me that I have it under control and that it is not an addiction (but I know better). I can imagine that it will get even more difficult as time goes by but I'm pretty determined to work this out. Thanks for the heads up and for your encouragement.

I'm predicting that this thread will gain some momentum (not giving up too quickly) but if it fails, I'll be waiting for you in my shul.

Hi there - and Reb Installed, thanks for the plug  If it might help someone, please do - and I can always use the chizuk, too! Just click on the link below this post to read my thread.

One thing I realize is that aside from any other considerations, it's important for us to learn to control our lust, because otherwise, we're not going to be able to relate to our wives in the right way - we'll still be focused on our own pleasure, and women will pick up on that. Also, there will be times when your wife is assur - on occasion, for months at a time (e.g., after childbirth). We need to learn that we don't have to listen to the yetzer hora.

Hey Silentbattle -

Great to have you here, and mazel tov on your engagement! Your thread is very inspiring and informative. I am so happy to see that many singles are having the foresight to work on lust before marriage, I think we've all come a long way, it's scary to think that its just practice for the real run! Youre in a  unique place for someone on this forum, and I have friends who have dealt with this as chassanim, and it is not easy being with someone with such powerful feelings and I have a huge amount of respect for the fact that you are in control. You have a great thread for singles to learn from, and I think it will be great to hear updates from when you are married as well, assuming you intend on continuing your posts, as it would provide great insight of the stages singles can expect to go through.

I have a question that I know the answer for myself, if you don't mind my asking, did you tell your kallah about what you've been thru/are going thru? Personally, I feel I would like to have a completely open relationship and that a girl would respect moving on from lust, I wouldnt hold back where Ive been, although I can see why others wouldnt if it would jeopardize the relationship or make her not respect you.

Installed - Its hard to tell someone not to watch movies as many of us need to unwind sometimes, but it can definitely trigger and push in the wrong direction. Personally, after i started working on lust I found myself wanting to keep busy in other ways, and if ever, watch movies that will probably not have dangerous content. I dont watch very often at all, as the few that I started here and there were highly problematic. Hey, its the entertainment industry, they know where to get us. Non jewish music is another story  I try not to make a big scene about such hashkafic controversy feel free to discuss with me in PM. Although I will say that much music on the radio these days has an insane amount of explicit sexual content, im sure your aware. Ive cut out specific singers, dont do so well with others that I should cut out too, but im not holding there right now.

Shmiras, you may want to check this thread:

www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=2711.0

I personally don't know what to make of it. I think that I'll be open about it with my future kallah but it is obviously easier said than done. I think that talking about it before marriage can only be a good thing (but it probably also depends on the girl). If we truly believe that this is an addiction, we must realize that there is a chance that we will fail and an open relationship with a wife can only be beneficial. Yikes, hate thinking about this :-[ :'(.

I won't be listening to music during the three weeks so I'm covered for the short term. I don't have much free time for movies anymore because I'm spending most of my free "computer time" on this forum ;D. I'll be going to Toy Story 3 one of these days but it's perfectly kosher. I realize that music is a huge problem. I love music and the Jewish stuff is just not up to par. I just can't see myself giving it up. I enjoy classical music and I'm trying to substitute it slowly... 

Silentbattle,



So true!I'm glad that you dropped by, you have so much to teach us...

Hope you guys are having an easy and meaningful fast!

installed wrote on 28 Jun 2010 17:25:


very true indeed

many friends who i know that watch p* cant admit to themselves that they have a problem.
they think its just a guy thing and its totally normal as long as do it just '' once in a while''

its great that we can admit to ourselves that we have a problem so that we can get help for it

When it comes to telling a girl you're dating, everyone's gotta figure that one out for themselves. I spoke to my rebbe about it, and he said that, based on my particular issues and background, it would not be a good idea. But someone who had issues with mz"l and p*&n, would probably have gotten a different answer.

And by the way - I'm not in control. The second I think I am (the second anyone thinks they are), I'm in trouble. I'm living life, and focusing on continuing to live.

Hey Shmiras,

Hope you had a pleasant day! I agree with you about masturbation but porn can be an issue for many girls but I agree that it is better to talk about it before marriage. I had no idea that there is a "kosher music isle", I'll check it out. I'm currently on the go but I'll PM you one of these days (I'm curious about the music). I'll also check out the torah site and I'll let you know if I like it. Thanks for all the tips.

Silentbattle, thanks for reminding us that we are not in control, it's so easy to forget that basic point. I've been "clean" for 16 days and I'm starting to feel in control (which is obviously not good).

hopeful, totally agree with you. it's great to be part of this amazing group.

Good night.

Absolutely - we can enjoy our success, we can feel good about staying clean - it's a huge victory, worthy of incredibly huge celebration!

However, there's something else - we tend to think that we're in control. There's a part of my mind that wants me to think that I no longer have to be careful. That I can trust myself, that there's no chance I'll fall. And that's just crazy-talk. Because as wonderful as being clean is, as proud as I am, as happy as I am, as much as I can clearly see yad hashem in my life as a result of my efforts...I can still feel urges. Urges to look at women in the streets. Urges to engage in all sorts of destructive behaviors. Not extreme, of course, but small steps. nd if I trust myself, I can fool myself into believing that that's all it means. Just a small, one-time, giving in. Or something.

So I need to remember where that road leads. What happens if I start down that road. Where I ended up last time, and how I'd do anything to avoid being there again.

So I don't trust myself. I know that somewhere, I'm still capable of falling. And so I have to focus on continuously growing.

Keep in mind that in most of those stories, the tannaim seemed to have challenged the yetzer hora...but yes. The point is that if we want to go head-to-head, we'll lose.

A bit scary.

You guys are so right about that. Let me tell you what happened to me recently, it was a painful lesson but hopefully I've learned from it.

I was on a clean streak lasting 4 months, which was astonishing to me. During the 4th month I found that most of the time it wasn't even difficult for me, I was just cruising along staying clean and feeling great about it. And maybe I was feeling too proud of myself, maybe I thought I had overcome these challenges permanently.

So about 2 weeks ago on this hot day I was relaxing in this public park and in walked two women wearing almost nothing. On any other day I'd have seen them, moved my eyes elsewhere, and continued on with my day. But that day I said to myself, "Hey, nothing will happen, this is just some eye candy which I can enjoy." So I watched them for a few minutes, and then I felt myself hit with lust stronger than I'd felt in months. That night I fell. The next day I fell. I felt totally out of control. I realized my mistake and got a grip on myself. For the next week it was torture staying clean, but I managed with Hashem's help. The second week is going much easier now. Hopefully I've learned the following lessons:

1) When I'm keeping the program, I need to keep it 100%. Any small deviation can have disastrous consequences.

2) For me, the more time I stay away from lust the easier it gets. So I can never be proud of my accomplishments, because no matter how many weeks or months I'm clean, another guy who is on day 1 is struggling a lot harder than me.