hello all

i used to start topics left and right

lately i am trying to keep it simple

but here goes

i want to make a little "vinkle" (corner) of the holy forum

this is going to be dedicated to discussing the trials and difficulties

of shemiras einayim

please feel free to comment and to give ideas and suggestions

this corner is not about internet or po*n

it is also not about addiction per se


I dont know if this will be the most popular thread in the forum

but i am sure it has its benefits

keep on truckin
bards

This is a huge issue for me, much bigger than on the internet.  I don't have to go to site x or y but I do have to go to work, shul the store.

Just this week I was in a store and I saw a really triggering woman browsing the isle with condoms and such things.  More than just looking at women, looking at women involved with lust really gets my lust going.  I was totally caught off guard, had been in a good place and was not looking for lust but it certainly found me.  I got transfixed for a few moments and then took off my glasses.

Taking off my glasses.  This has been a really big tool for me lately.  I realize that often there are times when I need to surrender, pray, make a phone call to an SA buddy or use other tools but there is also are no awards given out for getting myself in a difficult situation and then overcoming it.  I get even more benefit from just avoiding the problem in the first place.  So, I guess I need to have gratitude to GOD for giving bad vision and the ability to just make it go away in a matter of seconds.

Jooboy

Amazing!!

I want to take this story apart

A anyone would have been triggered

B any hannah u had was taken away by removing ur glasses

I did that recently and suffered a head ache for hours

KOT!!

B

Thanks for puttin this up. This is a big issue for me. used to be, i had wired into my mind that when i saw someone in the street, that i'd automatically look away...lately, not working out quite as well. for me, i need to understand what the issue is. I dont know if anyone else feels like this, but i internalize things better when i understand whats going on underneath the surface, or at least have a strong feeling about it. With mzl, it is easy to feel you are doing something incredibly wrong, and the issues with what takes place, neshamos, etc, are a big but simple point to drive home. The yetzer hara can needle his way in, in a much simpler way. shmiras eynayim. Why is it such a big deal to look he says. especially if its just in the street, its not like theyre undressed, how problematic can it be to look at a face, or clothed body? While it is obvious that this step only leads to other steps, it is obviously a problem in and of itself, i just think the aveira is more difficult to understand. why does it do so much damage to the neshama? what takes place behind the scenes? a greater understanding of the issues would help result in distancing ourselves from it. anyone have any insights? 

shmiras,

Here's a thought on what makes street lust so difficult.  For me anytime I can get lust without doing an action my diseased part of me is very happy.  So lets say I'm in an airport magazine stand and someone is browsing porn.  If I look over his shoulder my addict is happy to get lust and my good neshama side is not too upset because there is the rationalization that "Hey, I didn't take it off the shelf.  I didn't do some type of action to get lust". 

Of course this really is a nonsense argument but I know it works very strongly in me, especially as it regards street lust.  My addict says YAY lust! and my good neshama says what can I do?

For me the sin factor never helped get around this particular mind game.  What I have found helpful is the realization that I don't want lust for myself and my own comfort and wellbeing.  I want to keep the Torah but frankly, I don't care enough about GOD right now to not do these things for HIM.  I have to realize I don't want to do these things because it hurts me!

Jooboy-

Very true what your saying about the lack of action making it difficult to see it as an issue. If I am merely flicking my eyes, I didn't do very much at all, so cant be that big of a deal, says the voice of lust.

Problem is, while I want to stay far away from "the biggies"- p & m, ultimately i dont view seeing things in the street as such an issue for my well being, which is why i dont feel a huge need to look away. i cant do it for me, because i dont emotionally  feel that it drags me down. in fact - i feel like its downright relevant to me, im single - maybe this ones for me! im doing a good thing! although this is obviously untrue, in the moment, its strong enough to keep me there until i can catch myself and force myself away due to the god factor - which right now is a bit weak, as i dont have such a clear understanding of shmiras eynayim, as opposed to shmiras habris, which is much more understandable. the only thing really holding me back other than that is that it brings my mind closer to lust, which puts me in the potential mindset to mess up further, which i clearly understand that i want no part of.  Im hoping that some clearer insight of why its so bad and how it affects  me, will be an underlying force in bringing myself away from such a situation.

Either way, just discussing it now, definitely enhances my ability to keep my guard up when it strikes later. have to go somewhere now where im sure there will be a lot of chances to work on this. great.

Dov often writes about an eitza to take away the perception of a woman as an object rather than a person by davening for the good of the woman, she should have success in whatever she might struggle with, financial, health, interpersonal issues, whatever it is.
it brings home the fact that she is a person with feelings and problems and a whole life outside of you drooling over her physical shape.
while sometimes it might be better to try to gently focus away from her rather than focusing on her this eitza has worked for me and is definitely something to keep in our GYE toolbox to use when needed.
Thanks Dov

Interesting- can definitely be helpful if I thought about and properly applied.

I feel like if I davened for them it would just keep it in my mind longer and also make me empathize with them which also makes for strong feelings. In situation where see non jewish women probably wouldnt apply this tactic.

I've read up on behavior enforcement - if i want to make my mind be trained to look away on sight, to positively enforce looking away and rewarding that behavior would remind my brain to do it again in the future....enforcement is just as powerful with adults as it is with kids.

shmiras wrote on 23 Jun 2010 19:40:

i know others have asked Dov this very question about non-jewish women and he answered that you can daven that they be treated well by their husband if they have one, or that they have enough money to live comfortably, that they be healthy, etc. everyone needs so many things, jew and non-jew.

Wow....pretty amazing to have that frame of mind for other people....

Wow BH for this thread

Today as I was driving

I actually practiced
To keep my eyes on the road or by red lights keep my eyes IN my truck

Practice makes perfect

Practice practice practice


KEEP ON TRUCKIN!!!

B

I saw a "keep on truck'n" tshirt earlier today and thought of you. convenient bc there was a lot of room to think about other things there.....

goin through the forums - i see the tehillim forum has not been posted on for a long time - what happened to that group? we should get that up and running again....i dont know what time zones everyones in but if we can set up a time where we all say one kapitel together daily, for everyone on the site, who knows what we can do.

possibilities?


suggestions for making  it happen?

facebook is officially history. its slips and falls waiting to happen. filtered it out.

Can anyone help me with any ideas, as to why seeing women, especially dressed women in the street, damages the neshama so much? I understand what it can lead to, but the act of seeing a womens face? i know it is assur, but does anyone speak about more detailed information about it? there are so many sforim about shmiras habris and what a big issue it is, less so in regard to shmiras eynayim. the gemara says its assur to get han'ah from the little finger of a women. any further pshatim on this? i hope this doesnt sound ridiculous, i really want to understand the importance and chachma behind it.

Shmiras,

Your post reminds me that the other day, I was looking at a picture on the side of a bus. The woman was fully dressed but I found myself looking closer to see if there was a hint of anything showing.

I feel like a total amateur here because I don't have that much factual knowlegde or understanding of the mechanics of the neshama. (And I'm new to facing all this too).
I too like to understand the roots of problems and dissect everything, but in the area of shemiras einayim I have just faced the problem on the surface.

Some ideas of mine:

Perhaps the Y"H tries to make us delve deeply into some problems to keep us tied to them?
Look at the fall in the Garden of Eden (possibly the root of all of this). Look at the snakes tactics. He used cunning, he made Eve look deeper into what Adam told her about the tree. The snake is sexual desire.

I personally found tznius women more attractive than those that show all and suspect this too is a trick of the Y"H, piggy backing on a good trait of ours to seek out a tznius wife?
Also, we're more curious about what is hidden from us than what we can see. So it's an open door that we may not guard. Then the imagination kicks in. I'm sure I was first pulled in by sheer curiosity.

Not exactly what you were asking, but I'm bored...