I've been having such a hard time lately. In recent months, my falls have become more and more common. I was on R. Duvid's calling hotline but seem to have fallen away from it due to conflicting obligations. Now that those obligations are gone, I feel that maybe it isn't worth going back to the program and just waiting until another cycle starts up again, so that I can do it right. Am I wrong for this thinking?

Its also hard for me to realize that i am actually having a conversation with myself before I fall. I hear voices making hints at me that this is not what  Ireally want, but I cannot identify the voice telling me to continue as being external. He is speaking from within me. I'd like to improve on realizing who is actually talking within me and who is pretending to. any suggestions?

I think i'm gonna start posting again regularly. Its been awhile. I also am down on myself because - since i've accepted that i am addicted in recent months - i have stepped away from feeling bad about falls. Im not so sure that this has been beneficial or if this has just made it easier for me to fall.

No longer are previous falls contributing to the stress that drove me to fall again, but without them, I feel like I am lacking the commitment to change and to improve. I know logically that I have reasons to quite - primarily... because I don't have control over my life. But since I am not experiencing any consequences from this lack of control - and please G-d I should not - i'm having a hard time realizing that its a problem.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts....
                               

Ahron wrote on 03 Jun 2010 18:44:

Ahron, you asked a few things and I've just quoted a snippet. Maybe I can help with this one. See Gemorah Nazir 4b about the story of Rebbe Shimon Hatzadik who met the shepherd who became a Nazir, and the Artscroll footnote there (it's either in the Artscroll there or in the identical story quoted in Nedarim 9b which explains what was so special about that shepherd's approach.
correction - see my posting below

Ok, i'll have to check that one out... any other suggestions about the rest of the questions?

On a separate note, im struggling now with a hwole bunch of stress from having been lost in the car for the past 2.5 hours due to wrong directions from my younger sister... Emunah's got to kick into high gear. H' works in some funny ways. On the plus side, i just was listening to R. avigdor miller the whole way and he was really helping me out - learning shaar habechinah and teaching me appreciation.

top ten reasons why i got lost:

to strengthen my emunah

to teach me patience

to teach me the lessons of R avigdor miller

as a caparah for having fallen today

to show me how i have the opportunity for happiness but all of the apikorsim surrounding me do not

to remind me that H' loves me

to keep me from the meeting I was supposed ot be at and prevent me from its influence

to remind me that happiness is in my control

Hey Ahron,

I think it's good that you don't allow falls to retard your progress anymore. There's nothing worse than falling and feeling uspet, and then spiralling downwards into the addictive cycle again.

However, I do have to warn you that just because you aren't feeling or seeing any serious consequences at present, it doesn't mean that the situation will remain so rosy forever.

It took me eight years to go from being totally confident of success in every department, to wallowing at rock bottom. What I'm trying to say is that you don't end up in hell overnight, but if you keep on making the wrong decisions it's really not difficult to mess up a life. Trust me I've been there and it's somewhere I wouldn't wish my worst enemy to be.

For your sake, I hope that you don't have to hit rock bottom like me in order to accept the truth. There's no third way mate: we either climb up to heaven or rapidly slide downwards to hell.

TC and KUTGW,

DL 

Hi, Ahron. Keep your head up. Keep at it. Go outside and get a breath of fresh air if you have to. If you feel overwhelmed, shift your attentions. Maybe go for a jog. Soon you'll get into a better mindframe. Hatzlocha rabba. We are all pulling for you.

Hello aron you sound like a real heavy duty serious oved hashem
Hatzlacha Raba

wow...your emunah is solid...reminds me of what my rebbi said...if everytime something bad / good / standard happened to you,and hand pooped out the sky brushed away the clouds (in london) and said listen mate... im master of the universe and that had to happen for such and such a reason... you would feel alot better about it, however bad!

Correction - I checked the Artscroll Gemorah in Shul this morning and I couldn't find the footnote that I thought was there. So I must have seen the vort somewhere else - I'll try on Shabbos to find it and will post it if I succeed.

Commando, I love your dedication to the text, inside. Thanks. GS.

Ahron wrote on 03 Jun 2010 18:44:


Not experiencing any consequences from feeling this way? It sucks - isn't that consequential enough for you!?

.....What?.....It's not 'consequences' enough?

Oh! Then you are like me! I basically accepted a sucky life, too! For decades I was a garbage can and all kinds of crap went in it: Self-loathing, confusion, contradiction, quiet desperation, jealousy, pride, fear, shame, hypocrisy...you know what I mean. Well, I found that I could really take a beating...and a stupid one, at that. Not much of an accomplishment. I would have sat there in it too, .

Eventually, b"H, consequences that were sufficiently real got hold of me, wouldn't let go, and 'helped' me let go of garbage-acceptance mode. I work my recovery and live the good-life now, or live nothing at all. That is recovery as I see it.

Hatzlocha, oh kindred spirit. I bet you are now on the right track and hope you (and I) stay with it.

dov wrote on 04 Jun 2010 17:33:

Dov, you KNOW we're all sorry that you felt all that before recovery. But some people seem to find an alternative short-term option: NUMBNESS. If you don't feel, then you don't hurt.

Now, we all know in our heart of hearts that some day the cold numbness of frostbite is likely to reveal the necrotic flesh that's been building underneath. But numb also means blind. So just as we don't feel the pain, we don't see it coming, either.

The difference between you and me, Dov, is that you seem to think that everyone will crash before long. I believe that some folks actually make it to 120 in their numbness. Maybe harming themselves, certainly harming others, but without real pain.

So the real question for me is not, CAN we live our lives that way but is that our CHOICE.

Your mileage may vary, Ahron.

commando wrote on 04 Jun 2010 15:32:


I'd really appriciate that Briut

I hear both sides of the coin here. It is hard for me to believe though that one can maintain his level and not fall into greater depths. These depths may not even necessarily be greater falls perse' but they may simply be deeper emotional hardships.The simple biproducts of not  making progress for long periods of time eventually eat away at a person in a way that sends them into deeper saddness, depression, self-hate and solitude.

Todays's another day. My recent strategy that I have been trying lately has been taking a shvua every day that lats for only 24 hours not to go on any computer without a filter when my parents are not home. Some how, their presence helps to keep me in the right frame of mind - getting me out of my self dug hole and into the real world.

Additionally, i realize that it is immature of me to think that there are no real results that can come of my level of addiction. This numbness is also a trick of the y'h in my opinion. Even from one day to the next, I can begin to see practical implications of this addiction.

Sometimes its just hard to see over the mechizta...

Briut wrote on 04 Jun 2010 18:18:


Nu. All I can do is try to maintain an positive attitude!

The numness is especially unfair to the wives and children...but you are right, many of us 'get by'....sadly.

yeah, "sadly." You said it, Dov!

Although sometimes these folks can work themselves up to another level you had mentioned. Quiet desparation. Even MORE sadly.

[If you listen closely, you can hear the sobs of a neshama that knows it was supposed to have more, do more, be more in this little trek through physicality.]

But for some, numb outranks pain, and "more than that" isn't even on their horizon. It's the difference between a household of a famous Rav with a dozen kids, versus an ice-sculptured bar mitzvah with the dry-iced DJ. But you really have to look beneath the surface to find what's real in those two settings. And some folks just... don't.

I'd trade overcoming-lust-but-knowing-Hashem to numb(lust)-but-numb(religion), any day of the week. Just thinking about the alternative makes me cry. Really cry.