well here i am again. "be holy" is back. i have been away along time and it is unfortunate to see how successful this web site is,merely because there are so many hits on it. b"h this gives hashem a tremendous nachas ruach that even at the end of the galus his children are not giving up and he has not given up on us.
  i will write later but i just had to get on line and see how my battling brother are doing out there in the field.
Stand strong and stand tall at the face of the enemy-with hashems compassion we get to a better place.

be holy wrote on 01 Jun 2010 14:48:
I hope everyone here can shed some tears over the beauty of your succinct message.

And that Mamma Rochel will shed some tears, too. "See how we all love You. Especially the ones who made it to this site." Welcome back, be holy.

well i is good to be back- b"h
we must remember we are the children of the avos and yosef hatzadik, who gave us the wear with all to over come any nissayon in galus. we are at the end of the galus and hashem is having such nachas from all of us that even in a world that is at the 50th level of immorality- worse than the dor hamabil. yet we still are here.

  chazal say that the goyim have a zchas that they do not legally marry two males,and today we see this growing more and more r'l. the goyim are using up their zchusim- we are really nearing the end.

  yet against all odds we are all here for one reason- the "mivackshim" the whole world has gone astray and there are still holy yiddin that are fighting fire with fire, and even in our low state fighting the gravity of our entire society is mind boggling.
we should have been lost to gulas years ago,but hashem has different plans- riddled with trials and failings but,every day that we even think about working on ourselves brings hashem the greatest pleasure imaginable. we are not angels but higher than angels!!

my story is long and complex- but i want to begin by introducing myself. i am married four years with one son and another child on the way.
i am not embarrassed to say that i learn in kollel and am struggling with a p-rn problem.
  my wife does not know. but after a very rocky first couple of years of marriage. we went for therapy together and the therapist told us she has done all she could after a year and a half of work. i was depressed and was sent off to get meds. my wife is wonderful but i always felt if she was just more attractive i would be happy. she didn't want to be married and felt she was missing out on life by getting married. so this made me withdrawal. all the time i thought if only she was taller ,hotter,thinner- a size 4 and not a size 6, or had a better body i would be overjoyed. i still feel this but now am realizing that i am almost 30 and my struggle with p-rn may be playing a bigger role then i previously thought. all the women on the street scantly dressed made me feel like i will never be happy.
  after the therapist gave up on us and i was on meds- i decided to confront my p-rn problem straight on. this is just the beginning of my trip o get to a better place. to be continued be"h.......
  we must realize that we can go through life blaming other people but ultimately a lot of our problems begin at home. if p-rn is in our lives we are not living and can never truly be at peace. we may feel good while acting out but in the end we know that everything we do doing the day is effected by what our eye sees and the actions that follow. but we can get better, not instantly but with s"d we will in time "see" straight again. never give up!! life is to valuable and our goal to precious to lose "sight" of.
remember brother that s"d is what we need to fet back to the s"d (sod).

i fell again last night- my wife is out of town for a couple weeks with our son i was clean for over two weeks,but the freedom did me in. the filter and the rimon were no match for my yetzer harah. i keep saying give me one more day of enjoyment and then i will erase everything and give my computer to a friend to look after.
somehow i don't feel good about myself. the last two weeks were amazing coming up to and from the yom tov of shavuos. but now i am just wandering along the endless desert- aimlessly,hopelessly.
  the bleak thought of getting everything i have lost to my yetzer by giving up my computer today is so far from me. my mind is so wired to look and touch that i can't resist.
 
  Alas- today is anew- i am a jew. i will try to go about my learning and davening, with a different view. asking for seyata dishma from hashem, and that he help us defend.
may today be the day that hashem helps us all come closer to him with love! i love you and am sorry for causing you so much pain.;
with tears i ask for help from the above. begging that everything i do today will be for you; with love.

1. It sounds like you are a beautiful person, doing beautiful work for yourself, for your wife and marriage, and for the RBS'O. And it sounds like you've got your head on straight about where the 'real' work is for you, and how to approach it. So, I'm sorta not seeing the big problem in a single fall other than some shame and guilt and impatience and everything. And those are "not Jewish values." So, just get to work.

2. I've heard several folks mention "rimon" in the same breath as filters. Could you please define, for the E'Y or loshon ha'K impaired? Literally, I assume we mean pomegranate, but the vernacular meaning is lost on me. (Hope it's not anything like grapefruit or eggs or something - disgusting how Israelis have turned food into anatomy!)

Thanks. - Briut

) “Internet Rimon” ISP and filtering system (Tel. in Israel: 1-800-222-234. Tech Support: 03-7341222)  - Server Based Filtering with new technology - neither black list nor white list!
Rimon uses new, cutting edge technology to provide the first reliable filtering system that doesn't use only a white-list.
To see a video clip about Rimon from Arutz Sheva (in Hebrew), click here.
See also a Hebrew Article and Radio interview about Rimon on Arutz Sheva.

thanks for the replies- i just don't have the energy to fight. i gave in again last night. my emotions are low "i just do it".
how do i get out of this mess? i feel like it will always be in this mess. that is the honest truth.

be holy wrote on 01 Jun 2010 14:48:


You asked what's gonna get you out of this. I think you said it yourself just a couple of days ago (see above). But others might just talk about "doing the work" that's available on this page: the handbooks and workbooks and bookbooks; the phone calls; the post post postings; whatever. So... I'll beat them to the punch and mention that stuff, too.

But I'm guessing it's gonna be the love affair between you and The Big Guy Upstairs that's gonna pull you back somehow. I don't know exactly how. ASK HIM, of course!

B'kavod u'v'ahava.

Thanks again- true but sometimes i feel a burning passion to become better but lately that has cooled off. i think about becoming better but it doesn't seem like a top priority now.My wife is away and i have fallen countless times. i have saved material that i delete and keep downloading again. I have been living with the beast for over 20 years and i am not even 30!
I was exposed to p-rn when i was about 7 or 8. i found a video in my fathers drawer.. it stayed that way for a couple years because I would watch but didn't know what to do.
At age ten i was molested by a cousin who brought me into his bed a few times and felt me and had me feel him.
This is the way my life began-is it my fault!? can hashem blame me?!
This is just where things began-then i was raped, and the p-rn problem has just been "something i do" for all these years.
Does hashem love me? why would he do this to me-i now see the results of all my history.insecurity. marriage that i wish was better. uncontrolled eyes. depression. no connection to hashem. just to name a few.
I will write more when i can because maybe it will help me get to a better place.
Doesn't Hashem want me to wake up in the morning and be happy and serve him with a whole heart in purity?
Where has my drive to beat this gone?- how do i get it back?
The chinuch writes on last weeks parsha "shlach" that we mustn't follow our eyes and hearts-eyes he says is for immorality. and we need to fight a little bit and before we know it the battle will be getting easier.because the eye will never be satisfied. as many of the mussar seforim write,eventually a person will has a desire to break his own will for the will of the rbs"o,and this desire will e greater than his original desire.
May this group be a nachas ruach to Hashem and may we seek counsel together,and one day enjoy more being victorious our desires than fulfilling them.
With love- your average joe in kollel

Wow. Your 'work' (and your posts) suddenly getting very 'real.'
Which might mean, 'painful.'
But if you can stand working through the painful, I'd bet there's a ticket sitting there waiting for you to get to 'the other side' of it.
Keep posting. This chevra wants to help you break through, not ch'v get broken.
Post more... what's in your head and what would you prefer to find  there?

the emes is a old chavrsa of mine- he's about sixty and a therapist,and wants to help me. i have been brutally honest with him about my past and current thoughts. the computer,chat lines and fantasies. we have been meeting for abt 6 months.
this is after about 2 years and 5 therapists. not that i am a crazy person but honestly i have such an awareness of myself that it sometimes stumps them. our previous therapist was a women so i never mentioned any of the stuff i posted. i just beat around the bush and said "i wish my wife was more emotional or dressed nicer,or more feminine" or simply "i thought i would always marry someone i was more attracted too".my wife doesn't know what i speak to the therapist now about. i just tell her i am working on becoming the best person that i can.
the funny thing is that you would believe there is a lot of hurt, but our neshama is so resilient that i completely blocked everything out.
in most cases any number of these things would send someone to drugs,girls,off the derech etc-but you know what? Hashem loves every yid and would let me give up on life. i have a normal day,a normal wife and am trying to sit with kiddusha and tehara in kollel,while working on the side!! hashem loves us!!! he never gives up on us! we are his one and only child-every single yid! no matter where we are or what we are doing.
i am embarrassed to see my therapist this week because i have been very bad while my wife is away.

the first year we were married i thought we were bound for divorce. she was 20 and i was 25.my wife made a decision that she regretted. right guy wrong time we got pregnant 2 months in-nobody would give me a "heter" for birth control. we both davened that the fetus should die. we would then divorce and get on with our lives. but things started to change and get better,now we are expecting our second. i still feel distant,which may come from p-rn, because it lets us get our fix without ever really connecting to anyone.
i have a couple q's- perhaps people have been in my shoes-
i have resentment to my wife because of our first year-i thought it would be awesome,to finally have someone to hold and love and have my outlet through-but then i found myself unhappy wishing for someone more pretty and i was back at the computer-
any thoughts on how to get over this hump?
i look at my wife still and wish she looked taller ,slimmer,bigger in certain parts,and it gets me down-i constantly think "if only she looked like that" or "acted like that" i would be happy. How do i get over this?
last one for this post- does p-rn and the like, ruin relationships even if i feel like getting my fix every once in a while makes things less stressful?
obviously marriage takes work but how much of what has happened in my pass is holding me back and if it were dealt with would i be happy with my wife and life?
one last question does my wife need to know about my past history?
i just need to know what i am going through is not unheard of- i need help in building my relationship,not running away from it or harping on the negative. i think all my problems are revolving around the "big elephant" that i hide deep in my soul.
may hashem see how we are all trying and grant "G-Dspeed" to our missions. we are in the olam hatikun- is it supposed to be easy? what i have done and what i may do later is not what to see but rather, this moment hashem loves me and gives me life- shall we not rejoice isn't that the real choice?

Yasher Koach for reaching out for help! 

My suggestion is - DO NOT DISCLOSE ANYTHING TO YOUR WIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is plenty of time for that when and if it is appropriate but the rule of thumb is if your are drunk with lust you can not think straight and should not  be making major decisions that can not be reversed.  From the descriptions in your postings you definitely qualify as drunk with lust.

To address some of your questions - in my experience:

1) Lust and porn absolutely ruin relationships. Getting a momentary release makes things worse by medicating the feelings which you then have no motivation to address in a healthy way.  I would venture to say there are many feelings you have about which you are not even able to be aware of because you have been drugging yourself for so long to deal with all the severe pain in your history.

2) If you can get recovery from this addiction and the underlying causes you can be 100% satisfied with your life, wife and self!!!! Sounds good right?

3) You are not unique.  I got my start a little bit later than yourself but have a few years on you and have also had this disease for over 20 years.  It has decimated my sense of self, harmed my relationship with my wife and absolutely destroyed my relationship with my children......and they are slowly all getting better and GOD willing will one day all be awesome.

Keep coming back, looking for help and asking GOD to lead you out of sickness and into health!

About your first question about resentments against your wife - I have a lot of personal experience with this and would be happy to share them offline.

Jooboy wrote on 07 Jun 2010 12:36:

Well, Jooboy gives good advice but I'd like to highlight one thing. He says don't disclose to your wife, on the all-essential addition that there's "time for that later."

I am very very big on the concept that a good marriage can survive anything but a secret. So I'm very big on finding a way to let our wives know everything - even the ugly, tricky, painful, etc. Perhaps ESPECIALLY those things. BUT... I understand there's a time and place for everything and the middle of an emotional crisis for EITHER of you might not be that time.

And I'd say this not only about your current reflections on loving your wife despite her not being a p**n star. I'd say this about your dark memories from childhood, etc. I assume she knows, but she might not pair the childhood issues to behaviors SHE now sees (that YOU might not or certainly might not CONNECT to earlier traumas).

When the time is right.

And know that when that time is right, I predict she won't hate you but will sit and cry with you, and daven with you, and feel relieved when she realizes it's not her fault, or her flat-chested body's fault, or anything else under her control. I predict it will make a lot of things even better. When the time is right.

Much love.

Be Holy

I couldn'd disagree with Briut more. There is no purpose in hurting your wife for the purpose of being honest. That your relationship with your wife in the beginning was lacking, both of you already know. There is no reason to dwell on that.

What you can do is build a new relationship.

First, you need to overcome your resentment to her that she didn't meet your expectations when you got married. You need to recognize that it your expectations that were warped not her.

Second you need a fresh start. It is possible to build a new relationship from scratch, may I suggest you buy the Garden of Peace by R' Shalom Arush to teach you how.

Well, for once I agree with Me3.

1. He says he couldn't disagree with me more. It's true. Often true! On this one, I think we agree if the focus is "when the time is right." If it risks hurting her at all, the time is not yet right. Period. Honesty on someone else's cheshbon is not honesty - it's cruelty. Still, I believe a good marriage has no secrets (and Me3 has a different view; eyluu v'eyluu divrei Elokim chai). Da'as Torah should be involved in my opinion, even though that means bearing a lot to a Rav.

2.He says, What you can do is build a new relationship. Yep, essential. It happens as we allow our SELVES to be rebuilt, probably not as the primary object of our efforts.

3. He say, I suggest you buy the Garden of Peace by R' Shalom Arush. HECK YES! Do it. Read it. Twice. Slowly. It's crazy, and it's magic.

I wonder if this "rabbit-season, duck-season" dialogue I'm having with me3 is helping you; perhaps we should take this one outside and leave your quiet thread alone....