OK, I am back on this board. Five months ago, I was here drowning in shmuts, not knowing how to handle it. B’Chasdei HaShem I learnt here at GYE the right attitude and focus and I hope that I have truly gotten out of the p…. and m….. addiction/habit.
Throughout the 90 days I have put the issue of Shmiras Einayim on the back burner. That does not mean that I davka go looking, although sometimes I do. What I mean is that with regard to this issue, I just carried on with my old attitude.
Y”H: “Look over there, you don’t want to miss out!”
Y”T: “But its wrong. If I look then I will burn, and also I will lose out in this world.”
Y”H: “It’s a lost battle. What are you supposed to do? Avoid all the streets? Not go to Chasunas? You will be completely restricted, and you will probably go out of your mind from the strain.”
Pshara: “Just walk without davka looking. Don’t focus on anything in particular.”
After some time of being bombarded with lots of flesh,
Y”H: “You see, you are driving yourself mad. You are a loser. You are anyway looking and you have a bad feeling. You might as well look with a good feeling.”
It is one thing to control myself from doing an action (m…..), or to not browse the internet. I can even to an extent avoid certain routes or places. But first of all, I hate limiting myself, although obviously I should. But more than that is how do I control myself when I am in situations which I cannot avoid? How can I have a positive attitude to this?
Anyway, I think that I have made my point. I know that there are tips on the site for dealing with this, but I would appreciate it if anyone can give me a focus to begin with. 

i came upon this technique recently - kind of by accident...

the idea is turn the URGE around...
and acknowledge it ...rather than fighting it.

for example - URGE...turned around becomes:

GEE, UR
GEE, UR < so focused>
GEE, UR < so obversant>

the effect is kind like being a kid dressed up in the MOST scariest costume you could create...and going out and someone say, "My aren't you the most adorable, cutest ghost I've ever seen"

who wants to be a CUTE and ADORABLE ghost?

after awhile the URGE will leave you alone...the YH (ego) wants to be BIG and SCARY!! not CUTE and NICEY-NICEY...

other techniques...

when the YH comes knocking at your door...

invite him in, ask him to take a seat and you will be right wiht him... (after you finish the posuk of davening...after you readjust your thoughts...take off your glasses...close you eyes and give your eyes a 10 second time out for looking ,e tc.


another technique:

rather than look at all the nice women...look for (and count) all the kedusha you see on the streets (young maida-las who will light shabbas candles, etc. )

b'hatazlacha

you are doing great! keep it up!

ovadia wrote on 18 Apr 2010 09:31:


Full control in Shemiras Ainayim is the final frontier of this struggle - and can take years... Here are some great ideas.

THE BATTLE HAS TO BE

BEFORE THE CHASUNAH TRAIN RIDE WALK IN THE PARK ETC

If you wear glasses, taking 'em off is a great idea. Just makes everything SO much more relaxing!

More important, though, is your attitude. If you feel that you're limiting yourself, things become very difficult. Instead, realize that you're freeing yourself! You're allowing yourself to go through life without having to look at all that junk.

It takes time. The very fact that you're working on this issue is reason to feel good about yourself. So few people really put a concentrated effort. You're part of the few...the proud...the GYE!

;D

silentbattle wrote on 18 Apr 2010 18:33:


I agree and that is what I would like to know. Is there a correct attitude which will help for this, or is it fight, fight, fight!!!

Thank you Dov II for your Eitza. I appreciate it and I will bear it in mind, but as I said at the moment I am trying to find the correct attitude (if there is one) to approach this issue.

I had two more thoughts why I think that that this issue is different to struggling with lust.
One is that I don’t feel that I have the same will and determination to conquer this issue. This may be for a number of reasons. Firstly, I do not feel as bad after”just looking” as after acting out. I mean, we all know the horrible guilt feelings after m.... and p...... We all know that these are wrong and how bad they are. “Just looking” does not have the same conscience. (I think that the Rambam says that this is the reason why Histaclus BeNoShim is one of the 24 things which are MeAkev Teshuva, because the offender does not feel that he has done aveira and so he will not do teShuva.)
The second thing is that it is hard to know where to draw the line. For example, according to Halacha to see a woman without intentionally stare or look is not necessarily an Aveira. Yet to me, possibly because I have abused my eyes, once I “see” I feel that I have already fallen. So it becomes a black and white issue. Either I walk with my head down, take off my glasses or put a paper bag over your head etc, or just be “normal” and hope that I won’t bump into too many Nisyonos. 

I hope that by trying to understand the difficulties, I will find a way to develop a better attitude.

[quote="guardureyes" link=topic=2183.msg61761#msg61761 date=1271604596]
Full control in Shemiras Ainayim is the final frontier of this struggle - and can take years... [u][b
[/quote]
Depressing. I thought that it only takes 90 days!!!

Seriously, ok a lifetime, but where does one start? Thanks for the link. I will Bli Neder read through it and see how I can apply the ideas.

I hear your points - I'd say that when you're "looking" at a woman, you can probably tell the difference. For me, if I'm looking at a woman, it's usually for the wrong reasons. Wait...what would the "right" reasons be, anyway?

You mention being "normal" - no thanks. I won't say that I always tale my glasses off, but even though 99.9% of the world would consider me not normal for doing so, I have no doubt that it's a good thing. It allows me to simply avoid the whole issue, and never even have to fight - which is, after all, what we're looking for.

And that kinda answers you're question. Remember, as much as possible, we want to avoid fighting the yetzer hora at all. Remind yourself that you're allowing yourself to be free, not limiting yourself and avoiding a wonderful pleasure. And just focus your thoughts and eyes elsewhere. if necessary, fight, fight fight - but whenever possible (and it usually is), avoid the fight. Take your enemy out with a sniper rifle from 1 mile away.

I ask myself this - do I need to look around for any particular reason? What will I gain? Sometimes, the answer is clear - it's icy, and if I don't, I'll slip. But usually, the answer is...um, nothing. Now true, this is a battle that goes on for years - but we get used to it. As I've mentioned on my thread in the past, one of the things about taking my glasses off is that it makes it easier for me to not focus even when a woman gets close enough for me to see. And it seems that my ability to not focus that I've learned from there helps me even when I am wearing glasses.

its a matter of perspective - I guess.
I once asked an Israeli Baal Tshuveh friend of mine how he avoided the army...

he before he got called up for duty - he went down to the millitary offices (full long black jacket, big black hat, big beard and all)
and DEMANDED that he be given a postion in the army - so he coudl fight for his country.

needless to say they were not too impressed with this charedi (fanatic...) they wanted him far away from everyone..
they finally offered him the position of a Driver.

he took his glasses out of his pocket - and said OH NO, then I will have to wear these and if I do I WILL SEE WOMEN!!!
I know they are out there... and I specifically dont wear my glasses - SO I DONT SEE THEM!!!

he got a dismissal!

----

when I got my glasses.. the prescription would have made my glasses look like cola bottle bottoms - so I asked the doctor to drop the perscription down 1.5

he was shocked - and said if I do that I will not be able to see EVERYONE all the way down the ben Yehuda plaza!!

GOOD I said!!
that is one more reason in my favor.

silentbattle wrote on 19 Apr 2010 13:31:

DovInIsrael wrote on 19 Apr 2010 21:59:

I find this quite unbelievable. In the past I have tried taking off my glasses, but I just could not keep it up.
I am writing this on my way to work on a bus full of Pritzus. I have worked out various practical techniques to help me. One thing is to be prepared. I always take with me for my journey a variety of activities to occupy me. If possible a Sefer, but otherwise general reading that will keep me interested and focused.  Another thing is my dignity. I try to be aware of my status as  a frum  Jew, and that to look “pas nisht”. Yet, I find it difficult to feel good about myself in this area.
As I write, from the corner of my eye a certain sight is visible. HaShem! I really do not want to see it, but it is there. Unless I close my eyes the whole way it will stay there, and today I do not have the option of another seat. Is that what HaShem wants from me, to close my eyes for an hour? If I start with these Cheshbonos then I will go mad! “Can I enter this place, and can I sit here or there?” Is it possible to live a normal life in a way that I do not transgress Velo Sosuru, or is it only possible by being extreme?
I think that Bli Neder I am going to try and work through the book “Windows to the Soul” and post my progress.
It is very hard for me to post this because I am very apprehensive about what the outcome will be, so thank you everyone for “listening” and being supportive.

thanks for posting...

when my "eyes"are misbehaving, as they like to do sometimes... I remnd them of the rules, and let them know that if they are not going to behave I will put them into a 10 second time out. (which means eyes closed - and they are not allowed to see anything)

usually works.

ovadia wrote on 25 Apr 2010 09:19:


The following is the preface to “Windows of the Soul” and a quote from the book The Juggler and the King which I think is a very nice elaboration.

The Zohar compares this world to a churning ocean and the body of a man to a ship in
the sea. Therefore, man requires knowledge in order to guide himself on a straight
course, avoiding mishap and losing his way. The ocean of life roars fearfully and
continuously. The winds of challenge blow and the negative impulse rips about like a
tornado with unimaginable force. All of life comprises great and endless tests, which
can easily capsize the ship and sink it into the murky, nethermost depths.
Yirat Shamayim and the study of Mussar will prevent the body from sinking into the
miry depths of desire and corrupt character traits.
(Rabbi Yitzchak Blazer, Ohr Yisrael)

Mans passage through this world is like a voyage across the sea to a distant land. The sea through which he travels is his physical existence on earth; the ship which transports him is his body; and his appointed destination is the reward of the world to come.
The ship of man has a difficult journey ahead of it. The sea that surrounds it – the physical world, rolls with storms and turbulence- the hazards that face every living thing in the imperfect world of physicality. The frail craft of human life could capsize at any moment. The hazards are manifold, comprising threats of suffering, poverty, pain and death. But the greatest danger of all that lurks in the sea is man’s evil inclination, the yetzer hara.
Suffering can be devastating but it attacks only the body, leaving the soul unscathed. A meaningful life can be carried on somehow even when the body is disabled or racked with pain, for the soul that defines mans existence is still intact. The yetzer hara, however, attacks the very soul of man. Whereas the damage brought about by physical suffering extends only to one aspect of human existence, leaving other aspects open to expression, the yetzer hara has the ability to bring about total annihilation. For if it should succeed in its task, then the very reason for the creation of man no longer exists, for man was created and placed in this world to overcome evil and chose good. The yetzer hara with its temptations to materialism is a threat to this whole purpose. Of all the turbulent places in the sea of mans earthly existence, the yetzer hara is the most dangerous: is it “THE WAVE WHICH SINKS THE SHIP.” 
The juggler and the king (Rav Ahron Feldman)

Day One
Mastery of the Self (also in today’s email)

The Talmud (Tamid 32b) tells us that when Alexander the Great reached the gate of Gan Eden, he called out, “Open the gate for me!” They responded to him, “This is the gate to HaShem, let the righteous come and enter.”
Alexander said, “I am a king of great renown. Since you refuse to open that gate, at least give me something from Gan Eden.”
So they gave him an eyeball. He returned to his place and weighed it. He stacked all
of his gold and silver on one side of the scale and the eyeball on the other.
Nevertheless, the eyeball outweighed the gold and silver.
He asked the wise men for an explanation and they said, “This is the eyeball of a
human being. The human eye is never satisfied with what it sees; it always wants to see more. For everything in the world is like nothing in a person’s eyes and therefore he craves more and more. In fact, his eyes are not satisfied until the day he dies and his eyes are covered with earth.” Alexander asked, "Can this be true?"
The wise men said to him, “Cover the eye with a little earth and immediately the true weight of the gold will reverse the scale.”
Is there an attainable method to master over the strong desire of the eye?
Hashem denied Alexander access to Gan Eden because of his greed and obsession for
power. His desires were inflamed beyond all reason, that is, he was bent on conquering the entire world. Therefore, they gave him an eyeball because the eye is the source of desire. Just as his desire was out of control, so too, the weight of the eyeball was completely out of proportion.
Alexander was perplexed by the mysterious power of the eyeball. Heaven was hinting to him about the futility of chasing after earthly desires which can never be satisfied.
However, he lacked the wisdom of Torah to perceive the truth. Since he was following the desire of his eyes, he could not see anything beyond his own ego and self-gratification.
Alexander conquered most of the world. Yet this mighty warrior was not
able to conquer his own eyes.

Although the lesson of day one in the book is “Know that if you sincerely wish to elevate yourself, Hashem will assist you in your endeavors.” I think that the first part of chapter one is equally important and deserves a separate lesson.

I feel that my personal lusting comes from not being “Sameach BeChelko” content with what I have. Imagine if I would be 100% content with what I have. Then I would have zero interest in anything that I do not own and then my eyes would not go astray. To be sure, ambition to get what one does not have motivates a person to want to achieve, but this should be focused only on Ruchniyos.

In relation to this I saw the following vort.
The Gemara says that the name Haman is found in the Torah in the Posuk “Hamin Haets HaZe”. There are many explanations for the connection between the two. One of them is that Haman had everything; wealth, power and prestige. Still he said” Vekol Ze EinoShave Li”. He valued nothing which he had, because of the one thing that he had not obtained- Mordechai’s death!
Similarly, Adam had everything. He lived in Gan Eden with Malachim waiting on him. There was only one thing which he could not have- the Etz HaDaat, and he had to have it.
In both cases their downfall came because they were not content with what they had. 

It has been a while since I last posted on this thread. I think that I am beginning to realize that any progress in Shmiras Einayim takes time. However lately I have become aware of an attitude change which I would like to share.
“In the old days” I would begin my journey to work, full of the right intentions. As I would start walking along the first street where there is a lot of Pritzus, I would try to keep my head down but inevitably I would see from the corner of my eyes some “sights”. After two or three times of “noticing” I would begin to feel spiritually “dirty” and I ( the Y”H) would convince myself that just by seeing even inadvertently I am Tumah and have messed up, so it is not worth fighting anymore.
Somehow lately this has changed. I now tell myself that even if I see bad stuff, as long as I don’t look a second time, intentionally I have not messed up. This has helped me because now I don’t give up anymore. I also feel that for me this is a “divide and conquer” method; and if I keep up this attitude long enough maybe after a while I will even stop “noticing”.
I also feel that something deeper has changed my attitude. As long as I was still lusting, every sight was a trigger and in that sense it really was Tumah even if it was inadvertent. However now I know that anyway the sights are not going to take me anywhere, and that I would be better off not seeing them at all. So now I generally feel that even if I see I really would prefer not to. That is why now I am able to justify “noticing” without feeling “dirty” and allowing it to get me down.
A last point; all this applies when I am in treifa areas of non frum people and Pritzus. However among frum people the Y”H has different tactics and it needs a different approach. I will post my thoughts about this another time Bli Neder.

That sounds great - I'm really glad to hear that!

Thank you for posting and sharing with us!