One more thing: I must confess that occasionally it helps me to go through in my mind what chazal teach us: kol hanosein eyno b'mah she'eino shelo - afilu masheyesh lo, notlin mimenu. In other words, the more I reserve my eyes for my wife (and for goodness in general) the greater my appreciation of her (and of goodness in general) will become. Every time I let myself enjoy the figure or face of another woman it will automatically cause me to lose a bit of the pleasure I take in my wife (and in the goodness of people in general). It is not a punishment at all! It is just the way we are. It's the way I work, at least.

There just is no escape from the fact that fantasy takes me out of reality, period. Motzee'in es ha'odom min ha'olam....

Bards says she is a problem but she is not YOUR problem

Yummymummy doesn't need to take up space in your mind

Focus on your kids

Toss a ball.fly a kite. Take pictures. Roll in the grass. HAve a blast

Drink a guiness

Have a yummy shabbos

Bards.

o days...

dov - that was really insightful and pure emes, its so true what you say and im gonna work on that perspective - thanks!

Bards - I wanna belive shes not my problem and sometimes i do but im not there all the time yet, sometimes i feel like i have to connect to her, like its wrong to let her pass by and not do anything about it (whoever it may be) i know thats ridicuolous but thats where im holding a lot of the time...

so to continue from tuesdays post, it was a bit of an awkward few minutes where my wife was still getting ready and i had to entertain the babysitter but i didnt trust myself to be in the same room as her and not store her image in my brain, so i basically hid in another room, i discussed it with my wife and she totally understood my problem but thought that at the same time, its kind of a chilul Hashem to look all frum and treat girls as if they're not there - there must be a way of doing polite small talk for like 2 minutes or something to show that i acknoweldge she exists but at the same not getting a good look at her, does anyone have any eitsas?


Now to catch up - i have good news and bad news. the good news is that i didnt go back to parents to use the internet. the bad news is that is that i fell twice yesterday kind of out of nothing. The truth is that its been a tough week - i had an interview for a job coming up, my daughter has chicken pox and i hvae a heavy cold, so all the stress and uncomfortableness made it difficult to do the avoda, or rather to protect myself against triggers. The triggers were stuff i saw out of my window and then i was driving around in the hot sunny weather where the sights aren't so great etc.. not an excuse just an explanation.

However, the y/h wants to get me all crazy about 3 falls in 1 week and going to my parents. But im not gonna listen to him, coz i didnt go to my parents on 4 out of the 5 days i could have, which is a teeny victory (coz i re-exposed myself to it nad made myself more vulnerable) and aparat from a very poor 2 hours or so yesterday, the week has actually been very good so im not gonna let a few isolated incidents get me down.

I had  to go on the train today for the 1st time in a while and the weather is much hotter but i was going for my job interview so i was preoccupied and even though i saw many many really inticing triggers, i ignored them coz i had more important things to do. And i realised that it is possible to do, to ride the train and have triggers all around and ignore them - it was very empowering, i did it the rest of the day even after the interview coz i was in that mode.

So i have realised that if i can focus on something or be filled with something so that i have no void to fill, it will be much harder for lust to penetrate. The most dangerous thing to do on the train is space out - I have to be utterly absorbed in something. Thats a mehalech that can applied in general too, perhaps drawing from dov recents reply to me & steves 'skinny minnie', if i set out to positively & actively focus on my wife and her goodness, what i love about her, my kids and goodness in general then i can close the void. In other words, triggers will come the whole thing is how i react to them and that is determined by my state of mind. am i at peace and in a good place? if so im well placed to deal with them, if not, the stress, anxiety, frustration will prevent me from being able to deal with it. So i have to work on having Hashem with me all the time, trusting whatever happens is for the best and trying to live with a menuchas hanefesh.

have a great shabbos!

You are obviously recovering, you fruitcake. be nice to yourself and have a guiness or roll in the grass or something. Maybe spend a few minutes rolling each of your kids' fingerlach gently and with humming kiddie music...it's almost as nice as a guiness to watch them giggle....

lol! yeh hearing them giggle is the best!

2 days...

Since thursday, i must have had over 50 triggers and i have literally ignored them all, kimat no second looks, no dwelling on 'missed opportunities', just carried right on with what i was doing. Partly because of what i wrote about on thursday, focusing on all the postitives, but also partly because of 2 things i learnt in orchos tzadikim which i recently started learning.

Firstly, in sha'ar haga'avoh (the gate of pride) it talks about how pride causes a person to be impatient. I was thinking that impatience is really a major part of the problem. I see someone attractive and I think I have to experience the pleasure of a connection with her right now. What nonsense! be patient, I have a wife, I will experience pleasure, it doesn't have to be right now. Working on this aspect of patience has helped the past couple of days. Why does pride actually cause us to be impatient? I think its what dov was saying on one of last weeks emails. I expect to get something my way, in my time, where and how i want it (pride) when it doesnt work out that way, i get impatient, but i want it NOW!. Working on remembering that i am part of a huge world with lots of cheshbonos is therefore also helpful - trust in Hashem's plan for me - for real.

Secondly, also in sha'ar haga'avoh, it writes, 'The woman who adornes herself for men, inflames their hearts and stirs up lewd thoughts within them and her punishment therefore is very great because she has become a stumbling block to many men'. This is helpful to me with regard to'the yummy mummies which ive been talking about. My wife is not into fashion, makeup and making herself look great, so in the back of my mind i feel im missing out on it and look around me for women that do. But then i read this, now im not saying that all frum women who dress up are trying to attract men chas veshalom, they are mostly doing it to feel good or compete with their freinds or keep up with fashion etc, but that is for sure a byproduct of what they are doing. It puts it all in perspective, why should i look at them, if Hashem gets upset by what their dressing up is causing and also, im trully privileged to have a wife who isnt involved in this terrible thing.

(they're both on p.32/33 of the small feldheim torah classics orchos tzadikim for anyone who wants to look them up) - gut voch! :D

Sounds like you're working on your issues, which is great!

As far as the chillul hashem aspect...My first thought is that isn't your primary concern. It's a much bigger chillul hashem if you look lustfully, even if no one knows but God. And looking unlustfully is difficult, for most guys. Balancing may be possible, but at this point, I think that's a bit dangerous.

Kinda like a guy just starting physical therapy, and learnign how to walk, with crutches, trying to go on a tightrope.

Just keep rocking and rolling!

10 days...

thanks sb - i think you're probably right but i feel uncomfortable about it, i think ill ask my rov one time...

anyways, sorry ive not been on for a while, i went away for a week, thought there would be internet but it didnt work for some reason. We (as in my wife and kids) went to the coast for the week and i started off great, not needing to look, feel privilged to have what i have. But as was to be expected, the extreme inspiration wore of and i became human again... we were staying near the beach and i caught glimpses driving away from our flat (apartment bela'az) i have slipped a couple of notches to taking second looks and lingering, having my 'subconcious radar' on whilst driving, if not looking around actively. Although it was my best qualitative week on the whole even though i was cut off from gye, so thats encouraging.

I did have a couple of victories recently as well. Shabbos (we were back home) i noticed some ladies dressed up in their shabbos finery out of the window and i lingered for a few seconds. What would have happened is (we take shifts sleeping whilst the other watches the kids shabbos afternoon) i would have spent the whole shift darting back to the window checking what else is around and feeling frustrated about it, but i took a deep breath (inner peace is a major asset in this war) and remembered all that i have and straight after played really nicely with my daughter, just enjoying the moment and appreciating her! how much better!

This afternoon i was at my parents checking up something on the internet, my parents were there but not in the same room and i checked my junk mail to see if i could delete it all, when there was this email advertising clips from a site i hvaent seen for months, it was in my email i didnt even have to search for it, i was almost drawn in to the 'just take a look' rubbish when i got a phone call, as soon as i put the phone down i relaised Hashem was watching me, no coincidence with the timing, so i deleted it straight away and got away from the computer.

I have a test coming up this week. IM going to israel by myself to visit my grandmother whom i havent seen for a few years and she lives in tel aviv, so im staying for the second week running, near the beach...

I have told my wife exactly what the problems could be and we discussed ways to deal with it. One particular thing is that i LOVE  sitting by the sea at dusk and watching the sunset, singing kumsitz stuff, i rarely expereince such dveykus and hvae been ithcing for opportunity since before i got married, but, i aint risking walking past shmutz (there is a separate beach i would go to) its way too risky its like the gemorah of the two paths to choose, im gonna have to avoid the street as much as possible. anyway my point is, im really upset that i cant have my dveykus moment but i trust fully (not just words dov ) that ill get better dveykus in return at some point whenever it is and i will wait patiently for that day. plus - im sure there will be deserted beaches in winter time at some point in the future - patience - just like it says in orchos tzadikim...

please daven for me...

I feel for you, and daven that you come through the temptations well.

I remember reading some advice to baalei tshuva, that if there's something they knew and really loved from "the old days" that's not exactly fitting a frum life, they should NOT NOT NOT work to get rid of it in their new BT lives. Instead, they should find a kosher replacement for it so that "it" doesn't need to add treif into the life but the teiva will have a kosher place to live.

You know, the bloodletter should be a butcher kind of thing.

I think this explains lots of the Jewish music explosion, the sushi bars, and who knows what else.

I guess it comes to mind in terms of a man who LOVES watching Hashem's beach, ocean, and sunset. What's wrong with that?!! It's HASHEM's ocean for crying out loud. So I cry at the prospect that shmiras einayim would require your giving that up.

So I daven that you find yourself a kosher substitute, rather than making yourself into some holy martyr shlita. B 'hatzlacha.

thanks briut, that means a lot and is an eye opener for me, being an ffb, i dont have much experience with that and they certainly didnt tell us that in yeshiva! i for sure cant go this week though, coz im on my own (i mean without my wife who is one of the only people who knows about it) it would be too hard to move past the triggers ill be exposed to and still have the opportunity to follow them till thursday night when i leave.

But, listen to how Hashem is looking after me. Ive been to israel like 40 times before, never has the plane turned around to circle the airport and fly back towards the sea. Last night it did that twice and the plane was delayed exactly to coincide with sunset, so i saw the sun set over the sea, even before i landed! i felt Hashem's protective embrace so strongly I nearly cried, what an encouraging start!and....

My cousins where i am staying, i always came for weekends in yeshiva, i would use their internet and womens magazines to act out when no one was home. Well, they put me in the other room from the computer, so no night time temptation and their kid is gonna be home the whole time with friends studying for a test so ill never be alone wih the internet. The streets in tel aviv are 50 times worse than london, i had forgot, but i came up with the idea with my wife to take buses everywhere and bury my head in the biography of my favourite godol - rav yaakov kamenetsky. So far so good...The walks to/from the bus stop and waiting for the bus are the hardest but i think of you guys, my wife and kids that i am in our holy land and that i am going to see my rebbe in yerusalayim tomorrow. I have been taking second looks but all in all a crazy improvement from when i was here as a bochur. Thanks GYE and thanks Hashem!

oh yeh... 12 days...

an honest mouse wrote on 06 Jul 2010 12:04:

Yeah, I almost cried for you, too. Beautiful.

Personally, I think that when we 'open our eyes' to Hashem's constant hashg. pratis, we not only see MORE of that in our lives, but I think there IS more of it. After all, why should He "waste it" (so to speak) on someone who won't see it, appreciate it, act on it, etc! May that hashg. always be the kind that feels right and loving and fun -- for you and for all of us here.

Bruit, thanks for bringing up the BT advice it is so true...

AHM, I find my temptations in Israel to be greater as well. It sounds like you are well prepared and I'm sure that you'll be fine with hashems help.

Hi im back from Israel. I couldn't keep it up. I found myself with about 2 hours to kill and no one had come into the room for an hr whilst i was on gye. I succumed to the temptation. I looked around for a while arousing my lust. Then i went out for a walk along the beach specifically to look even after my inspiring moment the night before. Thats pretty low... then i came back and actually went the whole hog with p & m...

I managed to build myself up again, telling myself that its rare im in this postion and i lasted 24 hours on my own until i fell which is a long time when you're by yourself. The next day (wednesday) I went to yerushalayim, i went crazy, the way a lot of the frum ladies dress in yerushalayim is lethal for me. I was unprepared, i forgot how delicate i am in that context (i would use them for lust stimulation when i lived there) it became too much for me. I looked and looked feeding my lust, although i managed to stop myself from actually acting out. When i got back to my cousins they were just going to sleep and of course the opportunity was waiting to use the internet which i took...

I felt really bad about it but the worst is that when i came home i felt a lot of resentment to my wife and wasnt pleasant with her. we had a long conversation about it and are back to normal b'H but I realise that the frum women are a BIG problem for me and I would like to analyse that with my therapist. My wife is not so feminine shes more logical and not into make up, dressing nicely and making herself look great - i find her goodlooking but everyone around me is dressing up which makes it hard and i need to work out whether its totally my problem or whether my wife could/should make more of an effort. Thats one thing ive taken away from the episode.

I also realised that my plans all worked , so when i think ahead what the problem is gonna be i can make protective fences. The problem i had was not preparing quite enough, like what to do if i was unoccupied and not being able to deal with the unexpected opportunities that come up.  I have to look at the big picture, over the past few months ive grown a lot and im changing inside, sure i took a step backwards but it was in unusual circumstances and i will build it up again.

Funnily today, during halel i was feeling down about the falls (i fell twice upon returing here too) and i came upon the words of my own chizuk vort from rosh chodesh sivan - which were so appropriate (about Hashem lifting us out from the garbage see the bais hamedrash). You never know who you're gonna be helping with your chizuk on GYE, even yourself! That was very encouraging, coz it shows me how i can think when im being healthy, im already feeling better, now its back to work and putting into practice the lessons i learned.

an honest mouse wrote on 12 Jul 2010 22:34:


Welcome back. Sounds like you're feeling strong, at least strong enough to get back in the game. Shkoiach.

It's none of my business, I suppose, but I noticed the juxtaposition of "wasn't pleasant" with the wife and "I find her goodlooking [in contrast to the frum pritzus out there]."  So my nosy question is, HAVE YOU TOLD HER? When are the last three times you sincerely and spontaneously said to your wife, I think you're really goodlooking and I thank you for the way you put yourself together, too."

Chicks dig that....

I'm sure you do it a lot, but your words certainly reminded me that we can all do it a little more.