Hi Guys...

What kind of relationship do you have with Hashem?

I have such a hard time turning to Hashem for help... :-[
I want to be able to connect, but have very negative associations with anything involving Hashem... :'(

This is due to a very messed up message about Judiasim that I grew up with....

Does anyone else out there have this issue?

How can I undo this?

The reason I ask is because one of the fundamental concepts of the 12 steps is about turning to a higher power to pull us through....

I seem to be unable to do this.... ???

Ask Dov. He used to also have this messed up image too. But today, Hashem is his very best friend.

After all, if you believe that He only has your very very best interest in mind at all times, and loves you more than you could imagine, what more could we ask for?

And not only that, but He is always with us, right next to us, in the room with us. And He wants an intimate connection with you. He wants you just to let him into your heart. (And on top of it all, He's also all powerful, so if you're connected with Him, you have "connections in high places"  ). Oh, and one last thing. He is also the very source of all beauty, all love, all pleasure, all good, all warmth, all security, all intrigue.... Anyone who is on His side has it ALL  :D

:D :D :D :D

I do believe, it's my heart that is unable to connect...

I have a similar problem, I think greatly due to my relationship with my father.

It's funny - We say H' is Avinu, Malcainu. But I don't like my father very much, and I have no idea what a real king is. Living in an age where policitians are awful people and routinely mocked also doesn't help.

In a way I've had to move away from those archetypes, and just try to grab onto other ideas:
H' loves me more than I can possibly imagine
He created me, cares for me, provides for me, prepares, teaches, trains me for everything
Everything 'bad' that happens is only for my best - the same way a parent will slap their kid's hand away from a boiling pot

It is hard, but I've found that slowly (I mean years), I find myself opening up more and more to Him, relying on Him and just giving in to whatever happens, and trusting that He's arrange everything for my benefit, even if I'll only understand it after 120

Thanking Him for good things has helped a lot too (health, job, books/movies/games/whatever that I get enjoyment out of/decent place to live/etc)

I think your idea of connecting versus believing is very much the difference between emuna and bitachon.

sR

I think I mentioned this before somewhere here how someone told the Bardichever:

"I don't believe in God"

to which the Bardichever responded

"The God that you don't believe in,I don't believe in either"

Alot of us ,including myself, were not taught much about God.

One basic thing to know if that though it is true that there is accountability and  punishment etc etc... He is not out to get you and He wants you to succeed and He wants to shower His love on you.

This feeling requires emunah when you hit some rough patches on the road,but when you know that He really loves you and wants the best for you,it makes things alot easier.

I used to be afraid to talk to Him about certain things thinking that He would be angry if I slip and the words don't come out the the proper way or that it is nor befitting to talk to the King of Kings about certain matters.

But now I know that no matter what,I may be afraid still,but I don't hold back from talking to Him.


I tell Him that though I feel foolish talking to the Master of the Universe about my internal feelings and thoughts,I will do so anyhow because I know that You made me, and You understand me more than I even understand myself.

Who else can you trust completely?

You know, I was thinking a lot about my issue here...

I realized that I tend to use the word 'G-d' instead of the word 'Hashem'
You know why?:

Because the word 'Hashem' is what I grew up with...
An unhealthy Part of me (all just emotions, not intellect) Sees Hashem as :

Someone who will never be happy with what I do...
Someone who just demands demands and demands...
Someone who will 'get back at me' if I mess up...
Someone who is unreasonable...
Someone who hates, or at least doesn't love...
Someone who needs me to fill their needs...

(I know intellectually that it's wrong... but my emotional mind isn't working with what makes sense, it's just projecting everything I was brought up with...)


On the other hand the word G-d is what I kept on hearing as an adult at 12 step meetings, in self help books etc.

They use the term G-d to refer to a loving kind understanding compassionate being, who just wants to help out if you'd just let him...
He doesn't need anything from you; all he wants is to be there for you, he wants you to be happy etc...
He is someone that you'd want to be with as much as possible...

I hope I can slowly attach myself to the latter idea of Hashem/G-d...

In future posts I'll quote some Seforim who demonstrate that the first description is false and the second one is correct... (writing all this, is actually helping me....)

To SonicReducer:
Makes a lot of sense to me... I'm going to try to view G-d not so much in terms of Father (Who to me represents Rage and Dysfunction...), or king (which as you point out doesn't exist much today..), but something else...

To Yechida:
I love that Bardichiv Line...

How about "Tatty"?
The kind of tatty that you wish to be someday...

7Up wrote on 04 Mar 2010 21:25:


Thanks for checking in...

I don't think it'll work for me, but I'll think about it...

P.s. when I get a chance, I will respond to  your PM...

One more thing:


yechida wrote on 04 Mar 2010 20:28:



My issue is that I was taught so much about Hashem, while I was growing up.

But I was taught that he is someone who will blow me to smitherines if I botch up...

When I was younger I'd Daven for hours, I'd cry to Hashem promising him that from now on I'll do a better job at taking care of him... Just please don't kill me...

I promise I didn't mean to look out of my siddur...

I didn't mean to forget my jacket
(my father would make me wear a wind-braker even in dead heat, because it is improper to Daven with a short sleeve shirt... Oh, and I was 8-9 years old at the time... I don't know too many people 'Frumer' than my father)

Well I may not have been using exactly those words, but I would turn to Hashem with a very warped attitude

I was the biggest Masmid, I won every prize that was offered, I knew my learning Perfectly-flawlessly....

Throughout my life I was very connected to Hashem, but to the warped perception of Hashem that I described earlier...

In short It's not that I wasn't taught about G-d it's that I was taught too much in a bad way...

Peace and Love....

Wow trying123 - that sounds much much tougher than what I've been through. My father isn't frum much at all (besides going to shul a bit on Shabbos), so for me becoming frum was in way forging out on my own.
One of my rabbonim in yeshiva told us that in his opinion, it was vital that baalei teshuva spend time with frum families, for meals, just helping or whatever, because its chinuch for someone from a non-observant home how to behave in a frum environment.

I think your challenge is very subtle, seeing as how you already grew up in a 'frum' home, but at the same time have a similar issue in that you have to remake yourself into a different 'kind of frum'.

Both of us have this issue that H-Shem isn't like our fathers, though we may be coming from different angles.

I can only wish you hatzlacha rabba, and remind you that the real H-Shem loves you more than we can possibly imagine. I also struggle with the 'He's gonna get me if I mess up', but I remind myself at the same time if He didn't want me to mess up, He would have created me as a malach, and not a person

this concept is a real mind-opener (to me at least).
I once heard a thought that part of the mitzva of getting married and having children is to show us in some way how Hashem relates to us. As we interact with our children, disciplining, loving, providing, etc. it can give us an idea of how a mature, aware being interacts with an immature, unaware being.
What might be more important to the adult/parent is to acquire a genuine definition or "image" (so to speak) of Hashem. In truth, there are different midos/attributes with which Hashem interacts with us. This might actually be the life-work of a Jew...

You bring up an important point that I think a lot of people have, on some level or another.

For me, my approach is to learn about hashem on my own, going through some sforim that give me an accurate picture of hashem. Personally, I love michtav m'eliyahu - it's not mussar, it's hashkafa (which can act as mussar, too - it's giving me an accurate picture of how the world looks).

trying123 wrote on 04 Mar 2010 21:59:


Weird.  I suffer from the opposite!  I have no fear of Hashem (programmed from birth, or otherwise).  I have often wondered:  how do I get the feeling of AWE as I stand before Hashem?  (It's one of the reason the mas******ion has been such a breeze for so many years)

I wish there was some way Hashem would just tap me on the shoulder so I know that He's there. 

I want to believe... and sometimes I feel like I do.  You know - he forgives me INCESSANTLY - so that in itself is a good enough reason to believe that Hashemm intercedes on my behalf.

Just a tap on the shoulder would do it! (no rush, whenever.)

You are all bringing up very valid points...

I decided to try to attach myself to people and communities with an upbeat outlook on Judiaism...

I believe that for true healing to take place I need to relearn how to connect to the higher power; G-d

I want to be able to turn to him for strength, for love...

I was reading a book by John Bradshaw, he said something interesting:

After all is said and done no one can be there for you fully
In his words: When the heat get's going It's my a** that gets saved first...

The only one that can truly be there for you throughout your life in every situation.... Is G-d...

More to come...

Thanks for all your imput

R' Lawrence Kelemen has a great shiur that totally changed my perspective on judaism...it's one of his signture lines that "judaism is not a religion - it's a relationship."

If you like, I can send it to you...