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FInding kedusha in Marriage
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A platform of recovery for Jews who find themselves struggling with addictions to pornography, masturbation or other sexual problems. Post anonymously about your struggles without fear of anyone finding out who you are. Ask questions, post answers and be inspired! Get tips and guidance from the experts who moderate this forum, as well as from fellow strugglers.
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TOPIC: FInding kedusha in Marriage 1666 Views

FInding kedusha in Marriage 31 May 2009 17:16 #5493

  • Nosson
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I am 5 weeks sober and I realise I have really messed up my marriage, my wife is used to the way I was . But I was really forceful till we were together and I didn't respect her at all.As well although we didn't break any issurim the tayva was really in control!
I started doing the program after my son was born so we had a month without this problem but now its back to haunt me.I feel that if I run after the tayva too much it will just bring me down again!
As well My wife tells me she enjoyed some of the behaviour that I now find repulsing,and that she feels like i am becoming a baal teshuva and leaving her behind.
Thinking back she was very tsniusdik when we fist married but now its almost all gone.
I know that I mus first work with myself and I feel as a first step I will only be with her when she feels right but its very very difficult since It is a mitsva but the most important thing is Kavana.
Tomorrow will be a better day, just don't keep saying that every time you wake up!
Last Edit: by Onceis2much.

Re: FInding kedusha in Marriage 31 May 2009 21:11 #5507

  • the.guard
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First of all, welcome to our community. Second of all, congrats on 5 weeks sober and on having the courage to change, even though your wife is used to the way you were. For most guys, the wife is usually a reason for them to change, because they are afraid of their wive's finding out - or because she found out already. In your case, she's actually holding you back, so that takes a lot of strength. May I ask, where did you get the strength to make these changes in your life?

See this page. Although it was written for a man, you might try and explain this to your wife, i.e. that if lust is the focus, it will fade away eventually. Instead, marital relations should be a time of emotional closeness, not of lust.

There are many, many levels of purity a Jew should ultimately strive for. We find in the Gemara the idea of having relations "as if forced by a demon". But this is only if the wife is on the same level as the man in this regard. Otherwise, one is responsible to please his wife.

When your wife is ready, you may want to work together with her on higher levels of purity and fulfill all of the holy advice of our sages in regard to relations. You can see for a lot of questions, answers and advice in this area.

You may have to ask advice of a proper Halachic authority to determine what to do if you are seeking higher levels of purity and she continues to desire behaviors that are frowned upon by our Sages.

May Hashem be with you!
Webmaster of - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
Last Edit: 01 Jun 2009 11:45 by .

Re: FInding kedusha in Marriage 01 Jun 2009 13:08 #5527

  • Nosson
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I realise I didnt give the full picture as I will now:
Basically I have beein involved in porn and Mb since 14 years old and I was able to get rid of it after I got married for period of time .then I fell back into it and My wife found out about it. She wasn't pleased...
So we got a filter and that helped albeight superficially....
When I move out of Israel and I began working in a firm which required much more time flying around it was inpossible to put filters everywhere, in aiport lounges, hotels and internet cafes.
So I relapsed even at home when I placed a filter a pretty good free one  (people should use it for there kids search for norton familly fiter it also puts time limits on the usage and sends a log to the paren spouse sponsor etc) but I knoew all the tricks.
I tried everything confronting my wife telling her what was going on I even thought of leaving my job and running to somewhere there wasn't internet as if that exists;)
Basically I hit rock bottom where before my sons bris I was the Sandek I did it again as well as I was having fantasies of every woman I would me at work and my mind was full of curses I couldn't help nivul peh.
I had never had that before I also started feeling that it would't be that bad if I were to go to a zonah or 2.

In the past as a bochur I was so depressed I was suicidal the only thing that helped was that I would just forget what happened and try to go ahead in avodas hashem besimcha as well as knowing that even pushing it off for a while was a great mitzva.
But now I was a father husband etc and I had totally lost control ,I would even do it in public places risking my job reputaion place in the community and create a HUGE chilul Hashem.

I tried one last time to control myself without succes I even told my wife if it doesn't work I'll do anything to make it stop anything!

First I found slaa online got in touch with them joined the first online meeting and started recieveing there support list.

Than I began with the first step which was obviously true I had no control I was heading down a path to insanity and beyond.
SO I didn't even try  to fight it myself I used step 2-3 together always I trust hashem will help me and asked him and gave myself totally into his hands.
Then I put down bottom line behaviours no porn masturbation .
Whenever I felt the urge to do so I would speak to someone, post share speak to my sponsor do whateve I needed to do to stop, as well I would try to answer and help others along the way.

Then I would tell myself one day at a time and I would try to do the next best thing in the next three minutes.
and that I could survive three minute without it.
As well My life would be a hell of a lot better without it instead of a living hell with it .
+ I would always take things slowly and leave it to Hashem-and think about the consequences.
Afterwards I realised that I must beging dealing with things below the surface not only hardcore things. qnd I came across the idea of triggers- things that push me to do things I shouldnt do.
First it was movies and novels but then I realised these were things I used to quite the real pain beneathe the suface as in whe I was lonely afraid, scared my wife stopped loving me, tense over money work etc. etc even time, like after a afternoon nap after a heavy meal.
So I need to deal with all of these !
But that isn't enough I must do the steps in order to find acceptance confidence and strength to deal with the addiction.
I know I will have it for the rest of my life if Hashem doesn't take it from me as David Says Chatasi negdi tamid but now I have the keilim to deal with it.

As for my wife I konw I have to understand her she loves me and accepts me now for who I am. I feel so special to have her its just that certain behaviours get me really worked up and sex crazed I don;t need heterim but the truth is that if I will just be there at her pace I think we'll be fine.
Thanks for your post
Tomorrow will be a better day, just don't keep saying that every time you wake up!
Last Edit: by .

Re: FInding kedusha in Marriage 01 Jun 2009 14:31 #5533

  • London

Thank you for your honesty, I really relate to your struggles, what you just shared. I have read in the SA literature that the marriage bed is often the last refuge of lust, I just read the most amazing paragraph in the SA Book in the chapter What is Lust and quote "I can't have true union with my wife while lust is active because she as a person really doesn't matter; she's even in the way; she's merely the sexual instrument.  And I can't have true union within myself while I'm splitting myself having sex with myself.  That fantasy partner I've conjured up in my mind is really part of me! With lust, the sex act is the nt the result of personal union ; sex doesn't flow from that union.  Sex energized by lust makes true union impossible".  I know from my own past experiance that when I am working my recovery program properly every aspect of my marraige is transformed.  You write that your wife is complaining that you are like a BT, I have been told that ones wife is often six months behind her husband in recovery, therefore when I started to get sober, I would expect my wife to shower me with love and affection, but in reality actions speak louder than words and my wife had seen me promise many times how I was going to change, my wife needs to see a prolonged period of positive sobriety not merely not acting out but also taking the actions of love towards her, and slowly but surely she too will change, but I am the key to all this I have to look at my defects keep my side of the street clean and leave the rest to Hashem, when I do this the sickness that you mention in your first post that you experiance during intamacy disappeared from my marriage, there was no need for it as I am giving my wife on an emotional level what she needs without resorting to lust.

Keep coming back!
Last Edit: by George999.

Re: FInding kedusha in Marriage 01 Jun 2009 15:08 #5536

  • Kedusha
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R. Guard said: "We find in the Gemara the idea of having relations "as if forced by a demon". But this is only if the wife is on the same level as the man in this regard. Otherwise, one is responsible to please his wife."

I must note that, HaRav Sholom Yosef Eliashiv, Shlita, as quoted in Sefer Mishkan Yisroel, states that this Halacha should not be taught today, presumably because no one is on that level.

Just as an alcoholic needs to avoid that first sip, a lust addict needs to avoid that first slip.Slip today? No way! ;)Fall today? No way, Jose'!
Last Edit: by Calev.

Re: FInding kedusha in Marriage 02 Jun 2009 01:34 #5573

  • gettinghelp
There is the idea that our relationship with our wives mirrors ore relationship with Hashem. There is a great book I highly suggest reading called In the Garden of Peace.It puts a real good spin on what is required alpi halacha to be a true and honest husband,and how one c ame come emotionally intimate with one's wife.Once you are  close and intimate emotionally the rest will come from above.Keep lo ing her more and more each day,putting her needs above yours.Listen to her carefully and put yourself in her shoes to get to realy know her as well as you humanaly can.Make her feel as though she is the absolute # 1 thing in your life.You will see nissim in how much closer you get to her and how Hashem will draw you in closer to him.
Last Edit: by strugglingjew.

Re: FInding kedusha in Marriage 02 Jun 2009 12:35 #5588

  • chl

Thanks both to London and gettinghelp for your beautiful posts. I struggle a lot with showing my wife more attention and making her no1. I already got a lot of good advice on this forum concerning this, but it "wears off" after some days. SO the more i read about it again, the more i'll be b'H able to really do it.

Again, thanks to the 2 of you!
Last Edit: by cholent head.

Re: FInding kedusha in Marriage 03 Jun 2009 16:44 #5667

  • Nosson
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I must also go a little further its not only the kedusha its also the fact that I am codependent as well as  insecure. I lose myself in social scenes and I'm always inviting friends over .My wife and I are both working over full time and with communities+2 kids .... So we are both very stressed as well.
Here some more of how I feel and how I need to work the steps it shows how  sometimes things are really tough and it causes you to really stand on edge Hashem PLEASE HELP!

Here is the real feelings very raw I must say .
My wife has crazy issues since she has tons of work 2 kids a crazy husband who loses himself with friends and cannot be truly empathetic.
But I place all my fears in the hands of my hp I trust him and that all will work out in the end he will take care of me since he loves me and I will not react rather act in good ways for the next 5 minutes and do the best for me . The truth brazenly is that I want also my wife for physical passion and s-x and she does not have the energy to give it to me,
But at the emotional level I am still in the pattern of I cant live without her accepting me and forgiving me. I feel worthless without that,
I know I must strive to be who I am do the best for me as a healthy human being ----but it is one hell of a task .
I feel that I not only want to go to step 3 I must in order to retain my sanity!
I must give myself completely into my Hasems hands and he will guide me.
I think its time for step 3 .
Thanks for listening ....
Tomorrow will be a better day, just don't keep saying that every time you wake up!
Last Edit: by Bestrong88.

Re: FInding kedusha in Marriage 03 Jun 2009 17:03 #5671

  • gettinghelp
Please please speak to Hashem for 60 mins a day tell everything.Beg, plead with Hashem to heal and your relationship with your wife.Buy the book IN THE GARDEN OF PEACE now!!!
Last Edit: by benishchai.

Re: FInding kedusha in Marriage 03 Jun 2009 17:54 #5675

  • Kedusha
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I read "The Garden of Peace."  Definitely a worthwhile read - a very new perspective.  Just remember - it's for men only.
Just as an alcoholic needs to avoid that first sip, a lust addict needs to avoid that first slip.Slip today? No way! ;)Fall today? No way, Jose'!
Last Edit: by Moti.
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