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TOPIC: rollercoaster 3087 Views

rollercoaster 22 May 2009 05:25 #5181

  • chl

Hi everybody,

yesterday i went to bed so happy. I got this filter, i was able to talk to one woman without lusting for her; i started working again (i had stopped for a week) because of something i read in "Today is the first day...".

Then i woke up this morning to find a had a mikre layla r"l. And due to some sex dream (not too much food etc). So that usually throws me, and makes my day miserable. But ALL THE CHIZUK from your website stood up and i actually davened upbeat and happy; i DID NOT GET DEPRESSED. That is THANKS TO HASHEM AND THANKS TO YOU ALL.

Then i started talking to my wife, and for a minute I was civil, then we got into a fight. Our fights are not loud/screaming, but we both are left with the bad feeling that we can not communicate. We want to see a marriage counselor. I think i really love her, but sometimes i just don't want to continue anymore. But i do. Such mixed messages... I don't know if i am angry at her, and if yes where does the anger come from? Is it justified?

I hope it is ok i talk about this here, since my marriage problem might be part of what led me to lust again (looking at other women, fantasizing). But let me know if it is out of bounds for this website.

Thank you for reading this.Thank HaShem and you for giving me a taste what it is like not to be depressed and in control, even just for some hours.
Last Edit: 24 May 2009 08:03 by noy.

Re: rollercoaster 22 May 2009 06:41 #5183

  • perfectnose
Hi and I am sorry to hear about your marriage issue. I do not have a lot of experience as some other people do but I have been married for a few good years (under 10) and as I heard a Rabbi said, when you learn aleph then you can start to teach aleph, when you learn beis you can teach beis etc...

I usually find that when things are tense I take a step back and tried to think of why my wife is acting the way she is. What is going through her mind and what is causing her to tense up. It can be anywhere from fear to anxiety to a misunderstanding. Also when I remember that woman are much more Hormonal  than men I try to let things bounce off and not let it effect my mood, especially if things get tense for no reason. Now I wish I can always follow my own advice but when I do it usually works.

Last Edit: by timetostop.

Re: rollercoaster 22 May 2009 06:58 #5184

  • chl

Thanks PN, i will try to reflect on this morning looking at it from that point of view.
Thank you again.
Last Edit: by Holy Jew.

Re: rollercoaster 22 May 2009 09:35 #5185

  • Ykv_schwartz
Regarding your wife,
I wish you much success with your marriage.  Some times in life, good things do not come easy.  So, put your hard efforts in, and ask Hashem for results.  I have been married for 11 years; my wife and I have had many ups and downs.  But, B"H, we have seen many many more ups than downs.  The secret was to take the downs and turn them into ups.  I have learned to recognize my shortcomings and admit them to my wife.  We have become very open with each other.  We have learned to understand each others needs. this takes time and efforts.  Hopefully, with a good therapist, the two of you will prevail.  One particular advice I would like to offer is, write a letter. This has many advantages. Firstly, it will help you think clearly of the situation.  It will help you express to your wife in a clear fashion how you feel. Sometimes, when we talk a lot, the other party cannot always hear.  With a letter, it is easy to absorb.  The third is, your wife will realize how much you value the marriage and want to work on it.  This in itself will make it easier. 

regarding mikre layla,
It is very advisable to read the tikkun klali. Tehillim 16, 32, 41, 42, 59,77, 90, 105, 137, 150.  I know this may sound voodoo, but Rav Nachman knew what he was talking about. It will also help you feel better.  I happened to notice that even Rav Chaim Palagi, one of the greatest of sefardi poskim,  recommends tikun Klali.  I was shocked to see him quote Rav Nachman.
Last Edit: by breath.

Re: rollercoaster 22 May 2009 09:57 #5186

  • chl

Thanks Ykv,

i really liked your email; it gave me a lot of hope. We were already discussing writing letters/emails to each other. I think we will try do to it.

Tikkun Klali: i have been trying for 10 years now to be a follower of Rebbe Nachman, and i recite it (esp. after ML), but i still feel lousy for the rest of the day (except today, which was a real chidush).

Thank you again for all your input!

Shabbat Shalom and gut Chodesh!
Last Edit: by YaakovG.

Re: rollercoaster 22 May 2009 12:28 #5194

  • yetzertov
Dear CHL,

I myself have been advised to be careful in reciting the complete seder of kirias shema al hamita (bedtime recitation of shema and related tefilos).
Last Edit: 22 May 2009 12:35 by Zane Cowan.

Re: rollercoaster 22 May 2009 13:00 #5195

  • chl

Thank you yosefyakov!

Gut Shabbes and gut Hodesh
Last Edit: by narrowbridge.

Re: rollercoaster 22 May 2009 13:40 #5198

  • the.guard
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Hi Chl,

Hashem made women so different than men, only so that we learn to work on ourselves. We have to learn to put away our natural "logical" thinking and try to understand a woman's "emotional" needs. Women can yell, get angry, be upset, etc. and they can tell you 100 reasons why they are upset, but it's not really what they "say" at all. If a woman doesn't feel you are "emotionally" available to her, and that you understand her deep needs - such as "caring", "appreciation" and the like, she will find a million "reasons" to fight and be upset. And you will tell yourself that she is being "irrational" - and you are right. But she is only being "irrational" about the argument that you are having at this present moment. But what we men often don't realize, is that she is arguing for completely different reasons!

These things take a lot of time to learn and a lot of work on ourselves (on our "egos"), before we begin to understand a person who thinks in a totally different way than us. Why did Hashem do this? Couldn't he make men and women understand each other? Well, he put us on this world to work on ourselves. And there is no greater way to work on one's ego than with one's own wife.

The "anger" you feel that you claim you don't know where it comes from, is really just your own frustration at not understanding her deep needs, and it's your ego's way of saying "it's really HER fault". When we learn these deep secrets of marriage, and begin to be really emotionally available to our wives, we will find that she acts in much more "rational" ways and will do anything for us...

Marriage counceling may be very helpful for both of you... Also, see if you can get a hold of the book called "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus".

P.S. My wife is calling me in to help for Shabbos, but I told her I am busy helping with someone else's Shalom Bayis so she should get lost!  ;D
Webmaster of - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
Last Edit: 22 May 2009 13:43 by Feelingjewish.

Re: rollercoaster 23 May 2009 22:18 #5210

  • chl

(This email has two parts. The first part is to say thank you, and to describe what happened to me Friday afternoon and Shabbes. The second part is a prayer i just finished).

Thank you, guardyoureyes, for your email.

When i got to the last two lines (your wife calling you to help), i had to laugh out loud. Our computer is in the kitchen, and my wife, who was standing close to me while i was reading, wanted to know why i was laughing.

I was a little hesitant to tell her, as i did not know how she would react to the fact that i am discussing our relationship on the internet. But i decided to tell her. Nothing to be ashamed about - i am trying to fix our relationship!

She was not thrilled, but then i read her pieces from your email. We ended up reading almost the whole thread together. We had a terrific end of Erev Shabbes and a very nice Shabbes evening.

Guardyoureyes, G-d bless you and the other members of the forum. For all of Shabbos, i felt so relaxed and happy. I haven't felt like that in along time. I love the "Today is the first day". I printed it out and finished reading it over Shabbos. Every word speaks to me. This book is right on for me.

I realized that i was/am having a real problem with lusting (although not for porn), but for women on the street, flirting etc. But i was not aware. I couldn't label it. Through the different resources of your site, i was able to identify my problem, and start doing something about it (I knew there was a reason why HaShem brought me here  :D). It feels so good not to have that edge anymore when i am on the bus, or have to talk to a woman. I feel much more in control, baruch HaShem.

Unfortunately, over Shabbos, my wife got depressed, and the nice plans i had for motzai Shabbos did not happen. I felt bad for her, at the same time I was also really hurt, as i had been looking forward to it, bearing in my mind all the wonderful things about Love and marriage and relations the Rosh Yeshiva tells Yerachmiel in the end of the story of the "Today is the first day".

Now it is really late, and i just finished hisbodedus.

I rarely write down my prayers, but this time i did. As a lot of it is based on things i got out of this website i thought it would be a good idea to add it here. It is long, so maybe not everybody wants to read through it.


Dear HaShem,

I want to try to write down what I feel at this moment.

It is 11:10 pm, motzai Shabbes Bamidbar.

I was looking forward tonight to be together with my wife, but something during Shabbes triggered a depression in her, so I did not even bother or dare showing her my feelings. Instead I coached her on the piano. When we went to bed, I caressed her hair so that she feels safe and can fall asleep. But inside I was hurting (and feeling guilty and selfish about the hurt).
Under the pretext of wanting to do hisbodedus, I moved my bed into the living room. It was too painful for me to be next to her like this.

While i am talking to You, I realize that my wife has been depressed ever since I have known her. I even remember talking to Rebbetzen X about this, before we got married. The Rebbetzen explained that usually girls get happier when they get married. And I think that was true in the beginning of our marriage. Yet very early, certainly from our time in X on, my wife got depressed and upset again. When we moved back to X, I watched her progressively getting addicted to TV, as well as not taking care of herself and overeating. Thanks to You, there were and are obviously periods where she made a lot of efforts. But I feel that sooner or later she just loses hope again, and goes back to TV and food.

Maybe because of how I was brought up, I often take the role of the martyr, helping others “selflessly”. But truthfully, I am not really that selfless. I am not a saint, and all this pseudo-martyrdom makes me resentful, bitter and angry (this is true in every relationship I have, not just with my wife. Someone just needs to ask me to do something, and I’ll say, sure. And add another brick to my resentfulness, while letting the other guy think I am such a Tzaddik. Obviously I say this to You in a very black and white way: I do have a certain selflessness and disposition to help others).

One of the areas where I feel particularly bitter is in the sexual relationship I have (or don’t have) with my wife. I only realized this now. For me, ever since I got interested in girls, sex could not stand alone, but rather had to be part of a real relationship. I was never interested in one-night stands/purely sexual relationships. As you know due to my work I had a good number of opportunities in the past. But I was always looking for a girl who wanted to go steady. Maybe that has to do with insecurities in myself, or a moral attitude/religion, or maybe both. Paradoxically that does not mean I did not feel lust…

I told my wife earlier this month that I feel we’re like roommates. We have a certain companionship and appreciation for each other, but seemingly no “chemistry”. To see your spouse’s soul hurting, and as a result, overeating, spending a lot of time in front of the TV while the house is getting dirtier is not the best aphrodisiac either. When we are together it is beautiful, but at the same time I feel more and more cheap. I don’t feel it is a healthy expression of the relationship, of Love with a capital L. And I do love my wife. But I am a husband. I am neither a doctor nor a psychologist. I do want to help her grow and face and succeed in her challenges. But I also do want to have a good time with my wife, and feel loved and desired as a husband, as a man. And on the rare occasions that I do feel that way, I quickly afterward feel cheap as I mentioned above. Because in my subjective view, this -her- desire is not constant, rather sporadic, although she obviously claims differently.

I realize now that this situation has brought a problem of lust for me. Or maybe rather the lust was always there, just waiting for the right moment. I can’t go to the supermarket without looking at the woman or girl at the checkout without having some inappropriate thoughts. I feel like giving in when the opportunity to flirt presents itself. I am losing the very ideal that I have of marriage (and sexuality being part of that) in favor of desiring a type of sexuality that is a goal in itself. But that’s not really me!!!

Thanks to You Hashem I found the website of “guard your eyes”. Through the members of the forum, as well as through a book entitled “Today is the first day in the rest of my life”, I realized this mistake. I became aware of my wrongdoing and was able so far to rectify it with Your help. You saved me from falling!!! You know how close it was.

I am very thankful for that.

On the other side I am still very confused about what to do with my marriage. Obviously I do not want to put all the blame on my wife. Following are some problems that come to my mind:

״ I bring my hidden lusts as well as my previous actual relationships with girls into this marriage. This includes one serious relationship where, after three years, and (for me) out of the blue, I was lied to (not really cheated on, but almost). This experience definitively adversely affected my trust in women.

״ I had until recently a hard time finding a balance with the concept of “Shmiras Habris”, taking things to literally, the way I myself understood them from the sforim.  For many years I did not have anybody I trusted enough to ask for guidance. When I finally was able to talk to different people, I realized how much more subtlely and “mentshlach” religious Jews approach the subject. I was missing the fifth volume of the Shulchan Aruch: common sense.

״ I, too, have tendencies to be depressed and worried. This is probably not so attractive to my wife, either.

״ We have problems with parnassa, which, I feel, is my fault (I am the one obligated to support my wife and family!).

I am sure that there is more, but this is what comes to my mind now.

Through different tools You gave me, I started becoming aware of my feelings, and the necessity of communicating, especially with my wife. I have been telling her for at least half a year that I am not happy with our relationship. We plan on going to see a marriage counselor. Please, HaShem, guide us to the right one. I feel so happy that You are healing me, and help me to get active and work on my projects. Please help my wife too. Guide her and protect her. Guide and protect our beautiful daughter.

Help me to know where my limits are. I do not want to be angry and resentful anymore. Help me to know how much sacrifice I can and should take. How much I should compromise. Help me to change what I need to change. Help me to help my wife. Help me to know where I cannot help her. I don’t know the truth. How much should I ignore my views on marriage, my desires and wants and needs. How long should I put all these on the backburner while trying to help my wife wherever I can.  And, if at all, when do I have to say, “Ad kan. I tried but this does not make sense anymore”. I hope I never will have to say that.

Dear HaShem: Forgive my shortcomings. I want my marriage to work. I love my wife. I love my daughter. Please guide us in the right path.

Thank You for helping me so much. Please help all Am Israel, especially now before Shavuos, especially the people on "Guardyoureyes", who are trying so hard.
Last Edit: 24 May 2009 08:07 by noy.

Re: rollercoaster 24 May 2009 08:21 #5222

  • the.guard
  • Current streak: 487 days
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What a beautiful post, from the heart. Let me tell you something. I believe your wife got depressed on Shabbos because you discussed your lust on Friday. I may be wrong, but even if there was something ELSE that you think "triggered" her depression, it was brought on really by that. Although she showed a lot of understanding on Friday, deep down it is very painful for a woman to hear about her husband's struggle with lust... And it takes a day or two, but then she gets depressed about it. And she'll claim it's something else, but it's really that.

She always thought she was the only one in your life. Even though you explain her that you don't care for the thousands of others you have looked at - it is hard, very hard, for her to swallow. You need to keep telling her how much you love her and how much she means to you. Tell her that on-line images and other women you lust for mean nothing to you, it is just a disease. Tell her you are working hard now on yourself, and this is your tikkun - and she is your partner to help you grow. And whatever nice things you can say, even if they aren't 100% true - a woman likes to hear them.

I don't know if your wife knew about your past struggles or not. But even if she didn't, she may have sensed it - and this could have been part of her underlying depression for so many years.

As far as you doing favors for everyone and building up resentment, this could very well be a symptom of low self-esteem. Rabbi Twerski had this exact same problem. Listen to this great speech of his on this page about this very issue.

I don't think moving the bed to another room is a good idea. Even though it's hard to be near her like that, she needs you to be there for her in such times. And there's no greater "Avodas Hamiddos" that staying there and being there for her, even though you're screaming inside!

I can see there are many issues that need to be resolved. A competent marriage counselor will hopefully be able to help you both. I have an idea. You love the book "The first day..." so much. The man who wrote it does marriage counseling as well. If you are in Israel, you can go meet him with your wife. If not, you can still call him for free on the Israel hotline. See the bottom of this page.

May Hashem truly answer your heartfelt, honest Teffilos!
Webmaster of - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
Last Edit: 24 May 2009 08:23 by Want to be good.

Re: rollercoaster 24 May 2009 13:48 #5228

  • London
Thank you CHL for your amazing post. I really relate to what you are saying regarding your wife and have discussed my own sholom bayis issues both with marriage counselors and with members of my SA fellowship and this is what I have been told.

I have caused my wife terrible emotional and psycological damage by my acting out, even before my wife found out about my acting out she must have sensed that something was wrong with me and not able to put her finger on the problem.  Living with an active addict is no fun, when I am in active addiction I am unable to have a relationship with my wife on any level as she is reality and my addiction is pulling me into a non-existant fantasy world full of filth and darkness.

Then, all of a sudden I come into recovery and get some sobriety and expect that my wife will suddenly smother me with love, affection and forgiveness after all I am sober now.  But in reality it can take years to repair a relationship where the most scared of bonds have been violated.  My wife must have felt like a piece of dirt during my years of acting out that no matter what she did I was not attracted to her.  Look at it from my wifes side, she a young girl brought up in a frum environment goes to a frum sem and they teach them that a marriage should be built on a foundation of Torah.  She gets married to a frum bochur who has been through the Yeshiva and exepects that he will live a certain way, and soon realises that something is wrong and she is unable to put her finger on what.  Then she founds out that he has a lust problem, I am so lucky that she did not divroce me as this goes against every one of her core beliefs as a person and a frum jew.  And for her there is no room for "it's normal all men do that".

I have to constantly take the actions of love towards her even when I do not feel like it, I have to focus on keeping my side of the street clean and stop looking at hers, my side is a lot worse than hers.  My wife has stood by me thorough thick and thin, the least I can do is try to understand her and be supportive of her.  It's not easy my nature is to focus on the people closest to me and magnify their faults this stops me seeing my own character defects.  I have to stop the blaming and self pity culture and put in really hard work in keeping myself clean and well.  This is done in the steps - Step 4 I made a searching and fearless moral inventory of myself, particularly my resentments and followed the big books advise and worked through them to see where was "I" at fault how could I have handeled the situation differently, Step 6 & Step 7 looking at my character defects, my pride, my ego and am read to have G-d reomve them from me.

When I work this spritual program of recovery to my utmost, which I openly admit that I am not doing now, my relationship with my wife is so much better, as we say in the promises we will "be amazed before we are halfway through".

I am so grateful that I read the posts on this forum as I know what I need to do to keep myself clean, sober and well it's reading other peoples struggles that reminds me what I need to do one day at a time.

Last Edit: by emunah.

Re: rollercoaster 24 May 2009 21:29 #5243

  • Dov
  • Administrator
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Thanks CHL!
The responses from London, yourself, Guard and all the others were so helpful to me. Thank you. Reading your talk with Hashem gives me a feeling that you have been given a gift: The gift of taking your G-d seriously. Sometimes people take Hashem less seriously because of their problems. A spiritually attuned person can feel deeply abandoned when things do not come easily to them, and when a feeling of terrific failure and struggle is involved, well, their relationship with Hashem just doesn't stand a chance. I guess I am referring to myself at times before recovery... Not you. You - and it sounds like your wife shares this with you - are a spiritually sensitive person who simply will not give up. You are aware that Hashem is the creator, is really almighty, and is not going anywhere! He has all the time in the world to get the job done for you. I am with you! Just a thought.

Ditto to London's words. In my case, My wife and I got into fights every Monday night either before I went to my SA meeting, or after I came home, and often both before and after. This all stopped after I did my fourth step and started to use it in steps 5-7.  Not that there was any outward sign of a change, it just came on slowly - it took me about a year and change to go over to my sponsor and say, "Hey, I want to work the 4th". He never asked me to do anything, just helped me do what I asked help for, correctly. Then I did it over about three months time. I did a shoddy job of it, but it was done. Thankfully, it didn't occur to me to look over my shoulder and see if my relationships and life in general were getting any better. I never expected that to happen. But after a few more months, I started to notice a few things. one was that when I saw my face in the bathroom mirror in the morning, I didn't feel disgusted. In fact, I had never realized that I was feeling that way until the feeling went away! That is actually incredible. (same thing withnausea on morphine after a major surgery years later - I didn't even realize I was nauseaous all the time until I got off the morphine and realized "Hey! I am no longer nauseated!". Go figure...)

Another thing that I realized only in retrospect was - we had not been getting in those meeting fights. In fact, we had not been getting any fights. Incredible.

One could say that after coming to terms with myself - yes, accepting that I was and likely am still affected and often ruled by fear, pride, and grandiose thinking, I just didn't feel the need to avoid, despise, or punish myself. For, after all, that is just the way I am. No value-judgements, morality, reasons, nor "should"s in the 4th - "just the facts, ma'am". Wow. Every cheshbon hanefesh I had done before was about what I had done wrong and was considered in light of what'd have to be done about it. Not so here. It was my first real chance to get the facts about myself in a way I could not argue with. "Fearless Moral Inventory" - Why be afraid? It's just the inescapable truth. It has nothing at all to do with the rest of the steps, or anything. One step at a time. And the truth about me is/you beautiful, when accepted, like seeing one's self for the very first time. Why do we all avoid it so?

Well, I do not really know if that is what it is all about, but it might be. At any rate, things really started to change around that time. Incidentally, this was a bit after my first year of sobriety. If it is worth it, it takes time to get it for keeps (see B'nei Yisoscher on the quick and powerfully emotional - and therefore only temporary - aliyah of pesach in contrast to the permanent growth that results from the sefirah period).

My longwinded point really is that our growth will often occur and is presently occurring without our knowledge. It kind of bites us in the behind, if you'll excuse the crass metaphor...

So, yes, the counselor may help a lot, working the program may help a lot, if that's what you feel ready to do, and realizing that your wife thinks differently than you do will help a lot. But the help will likely come on a schedule and in a way you do not expect.
Someone once asked the Sfas Emes (or maybe it was someone else?): If kovod chases one who runs away from it, then why hasn't it cought up with me yet? I always shy away from kovod - but no one respects me yet? The Tzaddik answered: Surely you are running from kovod, yiddeleh. The reason it hasn't caught up with you yet is because you keep looking over your shoulder to see if it's getting close! Addicts, perhaps more than anyone else, benefit from setting nose to the grinding wheel, getting lost in living, and just letting the growth, success, and bracha shower down. It is a great life waiting for you. We tried to make it happen our way and failed miserably. It is time we took the third step and let Hashem do it His way.Uh-oh, this one was way too poetic. Hope it was helpful anyway.
Admin put these lines here cuz he likes 'em:
"The heart needs to be broken when will-power is not enough"
"Get off the 18-Wheeler and onto a tricycle!"
"The heck with me, what can I do for you?"
"I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons!"
Last Edit: by shani461.

Re: rollercoaster 25 May 2009 06:39 #5248

  • chl

Wow, thank you guys so much, GUE, London and Dov.

I had a busy day yesterday, so i did not get a chance to write back earlier. In retrospect that was good, because i was able to roll the two posts by GUE and London in my head for a day.

Dov, your beautiful post was inspiring and gave me a lot of hope. I will try to think about it today and then answer. There is just one thing i would like to address now already because you put into words something i had been feeling (although in a different area):
You said: In fact, I had never realized  that I was feeling that way until the feeling went away

A similar realization started happening to me last week: i realized that wow, i maybe not watching porn or masturbating, but i am much deeper into that lust-stuff than i thought. Only once i was able to label that feeling did i realize that it subconsciously permeated my every interaction with females. So, to use your quote:
In fact, I had never realized  that I was feeling that way until i was able to give it a name.

I would have thought this is a depressing truth to discover. But, aderabe, how liberating!

Before i address the posts by GUE and London, i just want to describe what happened motzash nigh and sunday.

As soon as i had finished hisbodedus, and writing it all down, i was overcome by a huge sensation of love and affection for my wife. Mamesh out of nowhere. It felt like G-d took my prayer and started healing me. I immediately took my bed (which is just a thin mattress which i put on the floor,so no moving around of furniture at 2am  ) and took it back to the bedroom. We woke up in the morning, both upbeat and happy. No fighting. She was busy with a friend's wedding, and took pictures there (one of her passions), so no hanging out in front of the computer watching tv shows. It's so good to see her happy and do something she likes. And this morning too: so far so good.

Now cc your posts:

Both GUE and London said that the addiction causes big harm to the spouse, maybe even triggering their own depression. I had to think about that yesterday,

On the one hand it seems like a pretty obvious thing to say. But on the other hand, when i think back... i married someone who was/is very pure, shomer negyia, internalized sense of tznius. I also think i have a strong sense of tznius (that is why i never had one-night stands etc even before becoming orthodox). But paradoxically, as i understood during my hidbodedus, i am shlepping around this lust that i was not even aware of. I can't tell you guys how different my life is just by being aware. I think that literally every woman/girl i have contact (cashier, post office, street etc, not h'v intimate) with, i had inappropriate thoughts about, and/or tried to flirt with her. Tried to see if i can make their eyes spark and make them interested in me. But all of this happened like a reflex, not conscious. WHAT A BURDEN HAS BEEN LIFTED FROM ME. Yesterday i saw plenty of girls and women (i was spaziering with my daughter), including late night in a Jerusalem park (daughter couldn't fall asleep, so i pushed her around in her stroller). And as soon as my eyes turned to see how they react to me, i was able to stop it. Boom just like that. And suddenly instead of seeing potential objects of lust, i saw mothers, wives, Bays Yakov girls hanging out with their friends and having fun. I saw human beings, created by HaShem, that i have absolutely NO right to turn into a lust-object. It was mamesh a CHANGE OF PERSPECTIVE. Just like a switch in my head.

So to get back to your statements, GUE and London: yeah it's pretty obvious that addictive behavior harms the spouse. But me? I didn't do anything wrong - or so i thought. If for all these years that we have been married i have had a lustful attitude towards basically every female i encountered; then yeah she must have felt that somehow! GEVALT, i am so ashamed.

London: you said something else that i was able to put into practice right away: show love to my wife. Here too, at first i thought: pretty obvious. But then after thinking about it for some time i realized again: yeah it's obvious, but i'm NOT DOING IT. Veha rayeh: When i started to be more attentive, and say nice things, it felt STRANGE. Because i don't do it. SO thank you for your statement, because this is mamesh a lemaase thing to be implemented immediately! May HaShem help me.

GUE, i will listen to Rav Twersky's shiur bli neder this week. BTW, I also thought about contacting the author of "Today" (i read on your website that he does marriage counseling). I am still thinking about it, and will discuss it with my wife. Is there maybe a way to find out a little more about him? Does he have website maybe?

OK, there is so much to say about your beautiful posts. Thank each and everyone of you for taking so much time and effort to help me and answer me. HaShem bless you all.

Dov, i will hopefully think about your post, and write about it tomorrow. I really liked what you said about the help coming in a way that i don't expect. It takes off a lot of pressure. Thank you.
Last Edit: by scheshbon.

Re: rollercoaster 27 May 2009 17:45 #5391

  • chl

Dear all,

i have been on this forum for such a short time, but my life is changed. Baruch HaShem.

I really liked what Dov said (in general i like what Dov says, it just occured to me  ) about the light of Pessah/work of the sefirah.

Right now i feel like HaShem is showing me the light of Pessah, since everything is happening so fast and so openly.

We have been free of TV for over a week now. As a result (i think) my wife and me are talking more, learning together, and overall spending MUCH more quality time together.

Yesterday she told me: you seem so happy and relaxed. (I am  ;D) Today she said: i feel we haven't talked in ages; and now we are talking again. I try to put a lot of effort in following London's advice to be kind and loving to my wife. It takes effort on my part (i am ashamed to admit this), but it really changes our reality.

One of the many good advices i got was GUE's idea to listen to R'Twersky's shiur on self esteem. I liked it so much i listened to it a few times in a row, and once with my wife. After that i did some research on the 12 steps to self-esteem developed by R'Twersky and found a website called:
The main guy there is someone called R'Yisroel Roll. Has anyone ever heard of him? In the beginning i did not connect that well to his shiurim, but after listening to them for a few times it started to make a lot of sense. It was echoing, i think, what Dov said about step 4. I started doing the "soul-state" exercise, and it really worked.

So again GUE, thank you so much. You opened up a door for me to solve another problem. I feel like i am mamesh healing. And it shows in all areas of my life: from shalom bays to household to work to davening to women etc...

I feel happy. And when i don't: i know how to get out of it. I feel like am no longer floating on the sea of my emotions.

Dov said: Addicts, perhaps more than anyone else, benefit from setting nose to the grinding wheel, getting lost in living, and just letting the growth, success, and bracha shower down. It is a great life waiting for you.

10 days ago i would have krechzed if someone said that to me. Now i feel like it is happening every second.

I am really speechless for HaShem's goodness and for having brought me to this forum.

So now i am a little scared if what i described above is really the light of pessah, to be followed by the sefirah... but i also feel confident that with your help i will be able to make these changes permanent. But then maybe they are already...

Thank you and wishing you all a freyalchn Yontef un a lichtikn Shabbes!
Last Edit: by gevurah.

Re: rollercoaster 27 May 2009 18:45 #5402

  • jack
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