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Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling?
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TOPIC: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 624 Views

Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 12 Aug 2008 12:30 #47

  • me
I am curious if in fact the major cause that we are all here is due to too much lack of structure in our lives. It could be that someone who is truly occupied with an activity, (learning or working), that gives them fulfillment, they would not fall into this trap. Someone who either is not busy in their lives,(which gives free time for the yetzer to fill their minds), or someone who IS really very busy, but not with something that gives them satisfaction, this  could be the cause to push them to look for "anykind" of satisfaction/excitement.
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 12 Aug 2008 17:51 #49

  • elya k
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This is not the cause, it's the trigger many of us have.  When we're not doing what we enjoy, we get bored and look for outside stimulation.  The cause, according to Patrick Carnes is usually some type of childhood trauma which has never been dealt with.  This trauma reappears subconsciously and we create a bond with the trauma.  Until you release this bond we will suffer.  Trauma does not mean a head injury.  It can mean emotional abuse, physical, sexual or even intellectual.  Have you ever had a Rebbe that told you, you were a no good, idiot who is never going to amount to anything.  Or people that shun you because you wear a different type of yarmulke?  Or have you ever been told that your mother is going to burn in hell because she does not wear a shaitel?  I've heard all of these things either to me or to my friends when I was growing up.  So I have to look outside myself now for validation.  If my parents never told me I was worth anything and my teachers told me I was dumb and worthless, where am I going to get validation?  The girl at the other end of the chat line, that's where!!!  Or worse, a prostitute or an affair, etc.

It's important to know the reason.  Awareness is the first step to recovery.. Congratulations for taking that step.  And please get one of Carnes books.  He also has workbooks.

A
Elya K was the first  GYE hotline moderator for couples struggling with Shmiras Eiynaim issues in their marriage.  Elya is the author of 6 books, among them Navigating the Phases of Sex Addiction Recovery, Help Her Heal with Carol Sheets,  Ambushed by Betrayal: The Survival Guide for Betrayed Partners on their Heroes’ Journey to Healthy Intimacy with Michele Saffier. 


FREE EBOOK ON THE GYE SITE AT: Mask In the Mirror (guardyoureyes.com)

Elya K. has been coaching people worldwide for over 10 years for Shmiras Eiyanim issues. 
For a free 15 minute consultation call 901-248-6001.
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 12 Aug 2008 18:25 #50

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Precicely beause of this prevalent problem, we began a whole new section of our website called "Kosher Isle". Help us make it better by sending us your ideas and links 
Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 13 Aug 2008 07:31 #51

  • me
I am not really sure that this is the root of the problem. I personally do not hold so much of the psychological approaches. I do agree that this is an addiction and therefore it should be dealt with in this manner, and I agree with you that there are certain "triggers" that set it off,but if we start at the beginning, we see that the ribbono shel olam gave us an unbelievable Taivah. And, we are told to control it!
    It is inherint for us to be attracted to the opposite sex so that we will fulfill the mitzvah of periah v'riviah. Chazal were aware that "Arios" were so severe, and that to keep away from this mikshal, they tried to be mevatel the yetzer harah for arios, just like they did with the yetzer harah for avoda zorah. But, as we learn in the gemorah, even the animals stopped reproducing. (I personally don't see why they couldn't just be mevatel the taivah for the arios without losing the healthy desire to fulfill the mitzvah.) Anyway, this has been known from the time of chazal to be an almost uncontrollable taivah. How many yidden perished in the midbar when midyan sent their daughters there to seduce Am Yisroel, until Pinchas came along to rectify the aveirah. I don't believe that they were all suffering like this Patrick Carnes is talking about, i.e. some chilhood psychological disorder from lack of validation. Chazal do speak about not touching your Amah when urinating, not to walk behind a women etc. Why, because it was known what we are dealing with. So all of us here didn't take their advice, and so things got out of control and became addictive.
  We have so many examples that this is a very difficult taivah to control throughout our history. (Dovid Hamelech-Bat Shevah)(Yehuda-
Tamar) I do believe that in these cases there were/may have been some devine influence as is found with the avos.
    Speaking about free time as a trigger or cause, I remember seeing in the Michtav M'Eliahu (R. Dessler zt"l), that the mind is like a vast empty field. This field will not remain empty. If you do not fill it with good positive thoughts, or busy yourself with something whether it be learning, working etc, the yetzer harah will surely fill all of this empty space. So, if we keep ourselves intellectually busy, there will not remain any empty spaces for the yetzer to fill.
   
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 13 Aug 2008 14:14 #56

  • snax
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Through my personal experience I would agree that as far as I can recall I didn't have any traumatic incident that would have caused me to fall into this trap. I was always liked by my parents, family, rebbeim, friends, etc. I would rather blame it on lack of satisfaction.
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 13 Aug 2008 16:29 #59

  • Mevakesh Hashem
I agree with Elya K and snax, that although in many cases in may be psychological etc. this isnt the root reason or cause for this. The root reason for this is that we were put  down on this earth to perfect ourselves and win the fight against the Y"H. We initially were failing that battle, until we were given Siyata D'Shmaya to turn our lives around.

The Torah said "Lo Yih'yeh B'cha Ervas Davar Ani Hashem Elokeichem" and was talking to EVERY Jew, not just those that unfortunately experienced some sort of childhood trauma etc.

Chazak VEmatz!
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 13 Aug 2008 21:15 #66

  • ChasdeiHashemm
There is absolutely no question that it is in each of our best interests to stay as busy as possible throughout each day. The busier our schedule, the less potential...

The problem that I find however, is that all u need is a little window of time with no one around to stumble. In fact, the summer is an absolute killer, with my wife and family upstate. No matter how busy I try to be, I come home to an empty home. Keep in mind that I do not even have a computer or tv, but that did not solve my problems.

Any input?
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 14 Aug 2008 04:11 #71

  • Mevakesh Hashem
Being home alone all summer, while the wife is in the mountains is one of the worst things plaguing the Jewish people in the NYC area. I know many Rabbanim speak against it, but to no avail.

It is a major tool inthe Yetzer Hara's arsenal.

so, what do you do all alone at home all summer?
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 14 Aug 2008 09:22 #75

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Dear ChasdeiHashemm,

Please take advantage of the new section on our site called "Kosher Isle" (in the navigation bar of guardureyes). It deals precisely with your problem. It is still small, but growing. Maybe one of the things you can do is help us come up with more ideas and links that are kosher and offer good stimulation and kosher ways to spend time?
Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 17 Aug 2008 21:59 #95

  • elya k
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Instead of leaving your wife a whole summer in the mountains, move down South to a new community where you both can be together and make a difference in the lives of others.

There is a whole world out there past the Hudson River.  I think  :

Snax, what do you mean, lack of satisfaction? Sexual? Work? Please explain.

A
Elya K was the first  GYE hotline moderator for couples struggling with Shmiras Eiynaim issues in their marriage.  Elya is the author of 6 books, among them Navigating the Phases of Sex Addiction Recovery, Help Her Heal with Carol Sheets,  Ambushed by Betrayal: The Survival Guide for Betrayed Partners on their Heroes’ Journey to Healthy Intimacy with Michele Saffier. 


FREE EBOOK ON THE GYE SITE AT: Mask In the Mirror (guardyoureyes.com)

Elya K. has been coaching people worldwide for over 10 years for Shmiras Eiyanim issues. 
For a free 15 minute consultation call 901-248-6001.
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 25 Sep 2008 22:50 #389

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I agree that not having something that one feels pressured to do is a great help --- for the yetzer hora. Chazal say that batoloh mayvie lidei.... I think that I once read something in a book by Rabbi A. Twerski shllitoh which sticks in my mind. " A Jew is too busy to have time to sin".
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 27 Sep 2008 17:55 #400

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Thanks UTS. I like that Quote and I put it up on our "Kosher Isle" Page. That's a whole section of our site dedicated to helping people keep busy with worthwhile things! (If you can find the exact book and exact quote, please send me it :-)
Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 29 Sep 2008 16:03 #426

  • snax
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Elya,

I just noticed the question you asked me. Looks like I missed that one. What I meant with lack of satisfaction is when I don’t see fruits of my labor. For example, as a teen even though I was from the average students in my class, on the written or oral tests I never got any major marks. My work is also not very stimulating. The most pleasure and satisfaction I have now is going onto this forum and seeing how people who are afflicted by this and Ish Es Re’ehu Yazoru – we each try to help each other. May Hashem give us all a healthy and heppy year. Kesiva Vchasima Tova.

Snax
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 29 Sep 2008 18:10 #430

  • elya k
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Snax, after Yom Tov I'd love to talk to you about work issues, because they are similiar to mine, or
used to be.  I just wrote a book which I'm publishing called Addictive Entrepreneurship which deals
with workaholism and the balance we need in deciding when to trust our own intuition or rely on others.

I may have some ideas for you on finding your passion and mission.
Elya K was the first  GYE hotline moderator for couples struggling with Shmiras Eiynaim issues in their marriage.  Elya is the author of 6 books, among them Navigating the Phases of Sex Addiction Recovery, Help Her Heal with Carol Sheets,  Ambushed by Betrayal: The Survival Guide for Betrayed Partners on their Heroes’ Journey to Healthy Intimacy with Michele Saffier. 


FREE EBOOK ON THE GYE SITE AT: Mask In the Mirror (guardyoureyes.com)

Elya K. has been coaching people worldwide for over 10 years for Shmiras Eiyanim issues. 
For a free 15 minute consultation call 901-248-6001.
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Re: Could this in fact be the major cause of our falling? 01 Oct 2008 17:02 #434

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Wow, Elya, that sounds like an interesting book. I'd love to see it...

You know Elya, if you are a writer and publish books, maybe we should put out a book together on Sex & Porn addiction in the religious world today, bringing stories from our site and forum, put down the 12 Torah steps, bring hundreds of tips from the site and from your experience with Zeva and Michelle and the healing centers, etc...

It could save many people and be a real hit (especially among those who decide not to have internet at all because of their problem, in which case our site can't help them).

Maybe that could be your next project :-)
Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
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