Kollel Guy wrote on 12 Jan 2010 16:04:


I don't recommend that either, but it's better than donating to nazis!

I said it first, burn 500 singles

That might solve the shidduch crisis...

Rage is correct, but Lo zu haderech. You gotta keep avodas hashem within the framework of halacha. And yes addiction itself, and the 12 steps are within halacha, see my post on shovavim.

oh and KG, I actualy laughed out loud!

Rage ATM wrote on 12 Jan 2010 19:57:


I know what he meant.  But, if he needs that type of deterrent, then why not eat a cheeseburger on Pesach if he falls?  I don't see much of a difference.

maskim, but he gotta pick an organization that serves the purpose, without funding a sucide vest C"V.  500 is plenty of money to make one. True it only pays for 200 AK rounds in gaza, but they might just waste them by a wedding.   You think our bands are expensive, try hiring a 10 gun salute in gaza, at $2.50 a bullet it'll cost you a donkey and 2 daughters to keep the rhythm going!! And just think about the takanos for the volume level!!! Nest thing they'll have to make a silencer for the AK making all the more deadly.

oh yeh, I know a little something about guns, bombs, war, etc... I even did a google search to find 10 recipes for black powder, all available at your local supermarket. But if I said the site name the FBI would probably pick-up this forum. No I'm not a quack, but they DO actually monitor the web for these things.


Ph and cheesebergers on pesach is the classic 5 kareis that you only get one. (it's truly a good deal, 5 for the price of one)

Rage ATM wrote on 12 Jan 2010 20:23:


Rage,

I used to take what you said with a grain of salt, then with several grains, then with an entire box of salt.  Now I take what you say with  . . .















Lot's Wife!   ;D

I think this thread has gotten crazy. There is a solution of giving Tzedukah to any place of your favorite charity especially for GUE. If you got to take out 200-300 dollars at a time and every time it happens.
That should be a deterent! Lets say it happens one day after another you must add another 100.00 How long can you last by that? I mean how long will your neder last? Can it last forever! Of course not. This is not the solution eatheir. If this is not a deterrent nothing will be in this fashion.

Rage ATM wrote on 12 Jan 2010 21:01:


Cut that out, Rage!  > > >

Rage If he where to agree to your last comment, he would be sn elidgeble candidate to take the shots. Yes if he is that addicted, that he will fund harming jews, he can better use the money for a months supply of SA MEDS.

This is getting crazy. How about telling a starving israeli family about his neder, and pay them the money. if he slips, he has to tell them WHY he isn't giving them a penny. Oh and Continuously speak to them for the interim. He will feel worse depriving and starving his new addopdted family, hearing their cries. Knowing their pain and hunger. And if he wins... he will feel greater than he planned to with the original neder

I am serious about this idea, who is with me on it?

And who will volunteer to make the connection. I am speaking seriously. This is a great idea. that can serve the purpose, while at the same time not funding our demise. (Rage, the neo-nazis may use it to fund hamas, it save on legal fees, court, jail-time, etc)

The old ideas are wrong, just wrong. That's a VERY negative idea, and if you made a neder you should be matir it immedediately. The truth is, and Chizkiyahu knows it, that if he falls he's not gonna donate that money to any hate group, no G-d fearing person would do that, so what's the point? The Yaakov-Reuvain drasha is genius!

I agree with SE about this, with a twist: Your BEST deterrent is to feel the pain of a fellow yid who will suffer by YOUR NOT BEING ABLE TO HELP HIM if you fall. But that suffering should be minimized.

How about supporting a poor family with $10 per day, to be delivered every Erev Shabbos ($70). Any day that you miss they lose that $10. They are going to count on that $280 per month in weekly installments. And you are NOT going to want to let them down. You should be the one to deliver it, so you'll have to face them if the envelope contains less. You don't have to tell them why, which aveira it is. You'll feel bad enough.

This is a POSITIVE approach, and a better one because each day, each week you make your goal you'll feel so good about yourself that it will give you chizuk as a deterrent because it will help to remove depression.

But I still think you could acheive your goal without threatening to punishing yourself. The anonymous 12-step programs WORK, Chizki, and you are intelligent enough to push yourself to do it. Talk to Duvid Chaim about his call, which starts up again in Feb. Info on the forum home page, scroll down from Wall of Honor thread to find his board.

Thank you to RageATM and guardyoureyes for your support in this crazy experiment ... but special thanks (without sarcasm) to the skeptics and critics for getting ME riled up ... as I said, I've been in a "comfort zone" with this addiction for far too long and I need to fully "rage" against it, as the Gemura Brachos advises.  Your pilpul, skepticism and unsolicited poskining is helping me get my "rogez" back!  Keep it coming!

I thought of a mashal ...

There was once a boy who, upon being old enough to drive a car, was taught that it is OK to run the occasional red light.  Not to run every red light, mind you, just the ones that are inconvenient.  So he did just that; he ran red lights when he was in a rush or was just bored of sitting and waiting for the light to change.  

Many years later, when he got older, the boy (now a man) had a minor accident after running a red light.  The cop on the scene informed him that, in addition to the present incident, cameras had recorded every single red light that he had run in his life, and that he had a stack of unopened tickets piled high to the ceiling.  However, the tickets had never been sent, because the city didn't have a forwarding address to send them to.  The man pleaded with the cop that he was ignorant of the laws.  He thought red lights were like stop signs -- you could go, as no one was in your way.  In a moment of grace, the cop let him keep his license, as long as he agreed to pay off the outstanding tickets and follow the law in the future.  The man agreed.

Once he had gotten used to the convenience of running red lights, however, the man found it very hard to change.  His now guilty conscience and need for speed could not compete with the boredom and tedium of waiting at every red light.  He knew that if he got caught again, his license might be permanently revoked.  But it was hard to change ...

So I am that reckless driver.  When I was in junior high (public school), we were taught by a sex education specialist that being pogem was something normal adults do to relax.  I didn't even know what the teacher was talking about at the time, but when I figured it out, it gave me license to be pogem without the slightest guilty feeling.

It wasn't until I was 25 or so that I learned what the Torah says about this aveirah.  By that time, I had developed a very difficult habit to break.  I think that most of the other details of the mashal can be understood.

So are you going ahead with the wager?

A part of me wants you to just because I find it amusing.

Wow...that's an incredible mashal!

I actually like SA's idea...it might need some tweaks, but something like that would certainly be a solid motivator, it seems to me...or maybe offer the money to one of those funds that help poor kallahs...and gain, you'd have to explain (possibly anonymously, but it'll still hurt) why you can't...

Oh...and I'm glad I could be part of getting you riled up! ;D

Seriously, though - how many steps in the handbooks have you tried?