This has been something which has been on my mind since becoming active on the gye website. Is gye strictly for addicts? i understand it is extremely helpful for people who are addicts, but is it solely for them? I have gotten the feeling many times that just because i am here makes me an addict. i dont think im an addict. The filter gaabai is on my case because i watch movies. So what? i like movies. Dont start with this "fishman goes to the movies" garbage. To bad he got stuck at a really bad movie. tsk tsk so sorry to hear that. The filter gaabi starts saying "movies its really not good for an addict ect ect." i dont think because i like the gye website and i have something to gain doesn't make me a addict.

Whats you opinion?

I hear you...Wow I'm happy to hear that filter gabbai cares so much to follow up on each persons Web history - It's beautiful but I understand a little scary. I'm about to set up my k9 now.

Where can i get that big Book?

I think the word "addict" throws a lot of people off. The image they have of the label doesn't appeal to them, and they don't want to see themselves as "one of those", so they deny that it applies to them.
Forget about the word "addict" and focus on the definition of the word.
I find myself - for whatever reason - doing things repeatedly, which I don't want to. And all the solutions I have tried in the past - have not worked long term.
That definition is why I'm here.
Call it what you want.
Do you have a "problem" with these issues? Can you deal with the "problem" without outside assistance and guidance?
Well I have a problem, and I have proved to myself that I do need help which I cannot attain on my own, so THAT'S why I'm here.
If you do not have a problem, or do but are truly able to deal with it on your own, then you are 100% right. What we mean by "addict" does not apply to you. If however you do feel that success in this area is beyond your own abilities, then you very much do fit the criteria, and should probably be following the rules just like the rest of us.

Couldn't resists going for the last option  ;D Sorry!

Here's the question - how much does it matter? I think that in this area, far more than most, the line between addict and non-addict is very narrow. Am I an addict? Well, i might not fit the full DSM-IV definition of an addict, but well, let's see - I'm acting in ways that go against my core values, I feel bad about it, want to stop, yet keep doing it, feel ashamed about it...etc, etc. Maybe not addiction, but as Dov would say, something's going on.

And the fact is that addict or not, triggers, well - they trigger us. In fact, they trigger most people, just that most people don't care, or aren't paying attention.

So, we have to figure out what triggers are. Women dressed in not-tzniyus ways is generally a good (bad) one. Certainly sex scenes in movies, or honestly, even kissing.

How many movies are you watching that don't have those?

I'm not saying that I'm perfect, I'm simply making a point...

silentbattle wrote on 06 Jan 2010 02:16:


The thing is that it matters VERY much. The concept of not taking the Y'h head on, is something which has been mentioned here a few times and is an important tool. If a person who is not really an addict THINKS he is, he has entered a whole new MENTAL game. he may actually be doing more harm than good. If we think were are addicts we are saying we have no control, and therefore we do what we can at all cost to avoid triggers. HOWEVER if we were to say "hey im not an addict im just a normal human with desires" then when we see a inappropriate woman its NOT a battle of addict vs trigger, it a battle of human nature vs not good for me. It's a totally different battle. When i watch a movie and there is a sex scene its not "oh, no this is a trigger what's it gonna lead etc etc" it more like this is stupid garbage and i wont look. when we make an issue bigger then it is we make the battle bigger.

My point is that granted there is such a thing as a lust addict, but if a person is not an addict but plays like one then EVERY little thing becomes a trigger and life becomes much harder.

When i was in yeshiva i thought i had the worst Y'h in the world and it gave me no peace and i fought with it for many years with ups and downs. during that time every time i would fight and if i would slip that slip would make a huge imprint on my brain because i made such a big deal about it. Then stopped fighting so hard and i didnt make sure i never saw any woman in the street, i just went with the flow, and it was much easier. If you dont make such a big deal about the battle the slips are much less damaging.

This is why i feel its an important poll bec it NOT cool to not be an addict and think you are.

You make a very good point. I don't think anybody here would suggest that all because a person struggles with taiva - he should treat himself like an addict.

But this does not sound like someone who "Has a taiva just like every other normal human".
If it happens again and again - regardless of how much time between falls - then you are obviously not able to control it. If your content with the recognition that this might stay much longer than you think, then go ahead. But if you want to really cut it out of your life, then I would suggest NOT taking the Y"H head on.

This reminds me of this guy's question over here.

[/quote]But this does not sound like someone who "Has a taiva just like every other normal human".

regardless of how much time between falls

[/quote]

thats what it thought also, till i spoke to very choshev people in my yeshiva and found out about there tevah. Now these guys are far from addicts, yet their y'h is tremendous. Mr. KG who are you to determine what "normal" and whats not?

and also just bec. a person slips doesnt not mean they cant control it. Did you know it is assur to get angry? did you ever get angry in your life? im sure you might work on it but there are times when im sure your anger got the better of you. are you in ager mangemnt? if not why not? you must be an addict if you cant cotrol it and you slip sometimes.

For one thing, putting the practical issues on the side for a moment - I agree with KG that the term "addict" makes most of us feel uncomfortable, certainly at the beginning. It conjures up all kinds of images - and "hey," I think, "I don't see myself bundled in a blanket, unkempt and dirty, with sign saying, "need money for porn."

So the first thing we need to realize is that most of us don't want to think of ourselves as addicts, whether or not it fits, and that can influence our thought processes. I know it did that to me.

silentbattle wrote on 06 Jan 2010 16:10:


that may be true, this whole concept of "the first step to recovery is to get out of denial" but if you ask me if i am a coke addict and i say no, does that make me in denial? agree the term addict makes people not want to admit it, but what about the people that are not addicts yet pressured into thinking they are?

You know, truth is, you're bringing up a good point. How do we define the difference between addict and non-addict?

i tried to get the general opinion on that here:

rehab-my-site.com/guardureyes/forum/index.php?topic=1418.0

Not to many response though.

You're not a real addict.

Reb FightingYid, you need to see what works for you - this is an individual battle. If indeed, when a sex scene comes up in a movie, you look away without a problem, and it doesn't trigger you, then fine. That's not a trigger for you.

You need to figure out exactly what works best for you.

On a practical level, though, when we're faced with something that is lust-inspiring, even on a basic human nature level - what would you say the two ways of dealing with it are?

Personally, I feel like even if I'm not an addict, it's helpful to just avoid seeing women dressed in ways that will get me thinking. And anyway, I really shouldn't be looking at them, right? So I use the technology of addiction to help me in my personal battle.

As far as looking at women in the street, I'd ask 2 questions - 1) what does it mean to "go with the flow," and 2) what's making it hard to look away?