Well said, Briut! Huh. I seem to say that a lot. 

I'm glad that things are falling into place. Unfortunately, as much as we'd like to, we can't make things better or easier for our parents. And it hurts, but we need to make sure that we're doing what we need to. And you are.

Enjoy Eretz Yisroel!

Have been meaning to post for a few days, but haven't really had a chance.

Baruch H-Shem, things are really starting to settle down, so last week was okay.

My time in Israel is pretty quick - I land Monday night, am free Tuesday day, friend's wedding Tues night, and then fly off late Wednesday afternoon. I figure a lot of time will be spent catching up with rabbonim and mates from yeshiva, so won't have much chance for site-seeing, but will try to get to the Kotel and a bit of shopping in Guela (tzitzis, new yarmi, maybe a set of Mishna Berura, stuff like that).

I'm looking forward to going, but I hate flying.


Last few days have been pretty hard. Still clean, but I've been wrestling the y'h more than I'd like.

I'd be interested in having someone else keep my filter password for me. Is there any way to arrange that?

Also - quick question (bit embarressing maybe). If I have keri on a Friday night, is there anything to worry about in terms of not being able to go to a mikveh / shower? I make sure to say Tikkun Haclali, but I usually spend the whole of Shabbos feeling dirty and not really wanting to touch anything, not sure if this is a good way to view it.


Thanks guys, hatzlacha rabba

First of all - you rock!

We have nisyonos. That's good - tells us we're alive! I think there's an official filter gabbai here, somewhere. Otherwise, if you have an accountability partner, that's a good option.

We pasken that you don't have to go to the mikva. Going is certainly a nice thing, I'd say feel positive. I think that when we start getting clean, at least initially, we have more of a problem of keri at night. I'd say that feeling dirty probably isn't a good thing for right now...Just my opinion, though.

So happy to hear that you're continuing in the adventure so well.  (At least, it sounds like, really well!)

Some responses:  No, I don't believe there's any need for mikveh - I won't pasken but that's what my LOR (local orthdox rabbi) has paskened for me). 

And HELL NO, I don't think there's any cause for feeling bad re: keri -- the goal is to get on with your life b'simcha. I've never found self-inflicted pain to be a very positive (or effective) motivator.  I'd say this even about a big-time slip and fall, I'd CERTAINLY say this if you're referring to a nocturnal emission that isn't even run by our conscious minds. Enjoy the holy air of E'Y and smile.  Every four steps you walk is a mitzvah.

Please post when you return and tell us how you got chizuk from your 'mates' (oh, how I love you Brits and your funny use of our American language ), and from the chasuna itself, and from the tefilos you offered at the chasuna and the kotel and anyplace in the Holy Land at all.  And I hope you'll consider my earlier advice and remember some things to say "thank you" for when you meet up with HKB'H.

Gut voch. Marbim b'simcha!!

PS: When I've lived in E'Y, I found one special thing helpful in avoiding falls: wanting to keep the holy soil of E'Y pure from the (physical remnants) of a (sexual) aveira. I could never even bring myself to SPIT in Israel.  Just a thought.

Shameful confession: just spent the last 10 minutes trying to get through my filter. Saw a couple of small pictures briefly. Otherwise it held up.

I feel so burnt out from the last 3 weeks, emotionally exhausted, bored, frustrated.

This trip tomorrow is coming at a really good time. I really need to just get away from everything

I see girls in the street and my reactions tend to be a mixture of:
- I really wish you weren't here
- I really wish you had dressed properly this morning
- I wish I was married
- I'm scared of getting married
- I don't know what H' wants from me

I don't even like looking at p*** but I don't know what to do with myself! I find it vile but I just keep pushing myself back to it. I was on my father's computer this morning to print out my ticket for tomorrow and it was a real struggle not to start looking at things.

I know if I fall I'll feel awful (y'h double whammy). I hate this teivah, and I'm worried that I'm setting up marriage in my head to be a blissful problem free solution.

sR

You should be thanking Hakadosh Baruch Hu that He saved your life!!!! You were on the edge of the cliff and Hashem pulled you away from the edge and let you walk on flat lands.

-Yiddle

Today's been really touch and go, not my best day ever (not my worst either at least)

My filter really proved itself tho (could use a couple more tweaks tho)

Pretty scary how much of a doorway the y'h gets through feeling down and boredom

I admit that I fell.
Today was too much. Dark, depressing, boring, long, frustrating. I wrestled for a few good hours but it became too much.

48 days clean, over one of the most difficult periods of my life. I think I collapsed a bit emotionally today, I felt awful the whole day.

The challenge I have most in times like this is not to get down - a part of me (well, the y'h) starts chirping "you're dirty, awful, disgusting, how could you do that, you're an animal. how can you daven, bentsch, put on tfillin after what you did?"

But, in the words of one of my rabbonim after discussing falling: VEITER!

Onwards and upwards. I regret what I did, but I couldn't fight anymore. Hopefully H' will help me to get going again and push to an even longer streak.


I wish everyone hatzlacha rabba wherever you all are holding right now

The Y'H is crafty in every area of life, not just GYE.  The harder the Yetzer sets a bar, the more H' will rejoice in your athletic ability to clear the hurdle. And giving in to sadness or depression just makes that Yetzer clown stronger. Get up and get back in the game, as fast and as much as you can. (Note: Hashem's not even asking to do this 'back in the game' stuff perfectly, only that you try to avoid despair.)

I'm sorta grasping at straws here, but I'm trying to think of something that might keep you going for a while.  I don't believe in trying to NOT do something: it merely energizes that "something" into an ever-increasing big deal.  So I'm trying to think of something ELSE that could be both a distraction AND something that satisfies your body's call.  

Maybe, and once again this is grasping at straws:  making yourself a little "brochos party" to smell some delicious scents. Some nice cinnamon or something could give you some olfactory pleasure that might maybe quench some of the desire for other pleasure.  Or some other special food or smell or something else that wakes up OTHER senses.  Maybe they'll fill some of the spot where the Yetzer is trying to invade with "other" senses.

Maybe another tack:  ask yourself, "if your brought you to haRav haGaon Elyashiv for a bracha" during your visit, what would you be thinking about while waiting in his parlor."  I bet it wouldn't be any of THOSE thoughts! So imagine you're there right now.

Even if I'm off-base, and I acknowledge that I probably am since I don't know you that well, please take in the fact that there's folks here on the Forum, like me, who'd like to stand with you on this.

Go team go.

I agree with your 'not trying to do something' idea - sometimes that forced ignorance just blows up the attraction / attention of the thing / act that we're trying to ignore.

Will speak with my rav in Israel about this - he's very perceptive and experienced, and knows me well, so a bit of eitza from him would be good.

I struggle a lot with guilt in times like this. I heard from Rav Leff shlita that there is a big difference between a person doing an aveira because he doesn't care or doesn't believe its wrong, to someone who admits that though H' doesn't want him to do it, its a struggle for him and he admits he's doing wrong. My rav also expressed an idea that the 'punishment' (if that's the right word) is kind of inversely proportional to the challenge of the aveira - ie the bigger the challenge, the smaller the consequence.

I have a tendency to be very hard on myself and knock myself a lot when I do something like this (and getting back up takes longer). I tend to forget that I had 48 tough days that were nevertheless successful, and allow it to be completely outweighed by 5 minutes of the opposite.

Anyway, onward.

thanks for your kind words Briut, powerful and helpful as always

hatzlacha rabba all 

I think you have a good balance - realizing the severity of the aveirah, but also seeing your tremendous success, especially in such a difficult time for yourself!

Focus on how good it feels to be clean. Enjoy your time in Eretz Yisroel.

On another topic - of course getting married is scary. It's scary for everyone, and doubly so for people with our issues, and multiply that by some ridiculous number to count in the fact that your parents are in the middle of a messy divorce!

You are a holy jew, growing day by day. Don't let the yetzer hora tell you otherwise.

SR being hard on yourself is the YH best trick. Don't fall for it.

Also check out the meditation download on Elya's page. That will help with stress. Here is a link loyaltycoach.com/audio/Serenity/

quote from his page- Mindfulness of the present moment is the key to sobriety and serenity. Download these audio files, which are actual exercises to walk you through learning how to focus your mind and not get distracted easily.

Thanks again guys

Holy Yid - thanks for the links. I'm already popping them onto my mp3 player, so I'll have them for the next few days. Will be nice to listen to something useful and interesting on the plane.


silentbattle - I've struggled for a long time how to come to terms with this teivah and aveira. One the one hand I understand its very very serious and damaging, but on the other hand its my - and many other's - biggest challenge. Of course I accept that there will be consequences after 120, but at the same time I know H' doesn't expect perfection, but effort. I look at myself and although I still struggle with it, I'm a very very different person than I was 2, 3 years ago. I assume this is a process that many other's go through, although maybe with other issues.

Dating will probably go on hold for a while, until I feel up to it. Will bring this up with my rav too.


I hope the Ribono Shel Olam returns to you all the help and chizuk you've all given to me - seriously, this forum has changed the battle a lot. Before I felt like i was alone and struggling, but now I see I'm part of a great army.

Hatzlacha rabba, kol tov

Hashem has already payed me back a hundred-fold - just by reading your thread, I get chizuk, and walk away feeling inspired!

You are indeed part of a great army - and remember that what makes it great is the fact that it's full of people like you!
sonicReducer wrote on 14 Feb 2010 22:17:


There's definitely a lot of truth to what you're saying, and I can't argue with it. I would caution you, though - when used in the wrong way, what you're saying can be used by your yetzer hora as an excuse.

In other words, you're right, but be careful about when you use that.

And of course - KOT!!!

Hi all,

Have been meaning to post for a while, but have been too busy or too exhausted. Thought I'd throw something up here quickly before Shabbos.

My trip was good, baruch H-Shem. I usually dislike travelling and flying, but this wasn't too bad.

My friend's wedding was very nice, although I wasn't feeling so simchadik. Considering what's been going on over the past few weeks, I'm pretty scared of marriage, so I was a little bit "aaagh! what are you doing!?"

Good to schmooze with my rabbonim who gave me some sympathy and a bit of eitza - I sometimes need to hear that I'm going through hard times, as it lets me be a bit easier on myself, otherwise I treat myself a bit cruelly and push too far until I end up burning out. Also really good to see friends who are still shteiging.

Went to the Kotel on Tuesday and Wednesday for mincha. Usually going there is a bit of a mixed bag - I don't really know how I should be feeling and I half expect to have an epiphany (that never materializes). The old city was also packed with tourists, so it doesn't feel like such a holy place when you have French teenagers traipsing all over the place staring at you trying to daven. My 2nd mincha there was a bit better - I had an easier time just opening up to H' - and yes, I did try quite hard to make sure I said thank you for all the stuff that is going right. I started doing this after reading through Gateway to Happiness by Rav Pliskin, who says that a major component of simcha is appreciating of what we have, even if its just working legs, eyes, hands, some parnasah, etc.

Have been okay with regards to looking at girls - being in Israel really just engenders a feeling of pity when I see girls there who aren't tznius, much more so than attraction (although frum pretty girls are actually far more of a challenge there - the y'h kinda goes "she's shayich, take a glance"). It just feels like a bit of a chaval. And I've been either exhausted or (today) feeling sick, so I basically have not had any teiva.

Going back down to the bottom of the 90 day chart had been a little disappointing - I have to keep reminding myself that it's not a new start completely, but rather only 1 fall in 7 weeks, and that in itself is something to be proud of, considering my environment and what's been going on.
Not feeling dispondent after a fall is sometimes a much harder challenge than preventing the fall itself (as many have mentioned).

Anyway, hope everyone has a good Shabbos, kol tov
sR