iwillmanage wrote on 10 Jan 2024 16:28:
Ish MiGrodno wrote on 10 Jan 2024 04:01:
Holy Mackerel! Seriously?!?
I have no idea what went on in this post
(so please forgive me if I missed the boat; although I do see that Rabbeinu CO Shlit"a used the h___ word so I assume that it's a lively and bochuresheh thread)...but someone ACTUALLY doubts that a better connection with his wife won't be a substitute for his lust issues??
I mean, like, you're a super hero and an awesome fellow.. but unfortunately don't seem to have tasted the real thing yet. Which is perfectly understandable. Big-fat-talker-me was a totally blind loser, replete with magazine and computer mistresses till my 40's : (
But y'gotta realize:
When your toddler has his first chocolate chip, it becomes increasingly difficult to feed him carrots.
When your teenager begins to drive, he gives up on the scooter.
When your bochur begins to enjoy a festeh R' Akiva Eiger, he loses his taavah to hock around in the coffee room.
When your teenage daughter flips out in sem, she becomes "grossed out" by red nail polish.
....but you'll keep on pornin' after you discovering the greatest friend and treasure that a man can ever hope for?!? My big change was precisely due to giving up porn and I'm pretty certain that most recovered addicts on this forum believe that there is a direct correlation between porn usage and quality of their relationship with the ol' queen.
totally confused and missin' somethin' out here in the hicks of Grodno
P.S. Please PM me and let's shmuz; I'm waaaayyyyy nicer in person
![](https://guardyoureyes.com/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/emoticons/new/smile.png)
Yes, seriously!
For some the notion that reprogramming bedroom life is the answer to their problems is as far removed from reality as lust is from love.
For that price we should be able to win the war in Gaza by simply asking Hamas to leave.
Apparently, some 'experience the real thing, realize that pornography sets up their brains in such a way that actually causes them to enjoy sex less' (HHM above) and stop. Aderabe v'aderabe, really lucky them. But others don't need reasons, definitely not the fact that 'it makes sex less enjoyable'. They have close to 90,000 reasons already, but it all means zilch to them.
Some girls seriously go for the red nail polish even after experiencing sem, some even go for the carrot stick after tasting a chocolate chip!
And some of us might tell you that the 'real thing' is more like the carrot and porn like the chocolate chip.
And those guys usually do much better in SA.
Just sayin'. I don't know see many around these parts that talk that talk and succeed with the GYE-only approach.
Way I see it - there are two options -
1) You can either focus on learning that life without lust is
more enjoyable,
more satisfying and well worth the effort. And you can beat lust to a slow retreat out of your marriage, your mind and your life. This is the TBOTG-style, GYE-forum-group-no-meeting, accountability-partner, social-support, way to quit.
2) Or you can admit that lust is a cunning and baffling power that holds you totally and powerlessly (this is a word, isn't that cool?) in it's sway and that you are totally powerless to do anything about it all (See Dov, Cordnoy etc). Surrender, ask a higher power to remove the lust, make a fearless personal accounting and be brutally honest about how totally lust could destroy your life if you don't surrender and ask for the higher power to take care of business. Step-work is brutal but it works.
A key difference bein' whether lust still lives front and center in your mind (SA way) or it has been banished to the corners of your mind and pops out to scare the living daylights outta you every once in a while.
Both of these ways work, and they are both perfectly valid. But each one has a
vital requirement:
To succeed with the
TBOTG approach -
You need to be willing to learn that life is better without lust. That is your starting point to recovery.
To succeed with the
SA approach - You need to be willing to recognize that you are powerless, desperate and at the mercy of a cunning and ruthless addiction. That is your starting point to recovery.
If you try to do both - so you hold on to half of the SA idea that lust is so universal and impossible to chase away, but you hold on to half of the TBOTG idea that you are so wonderful for having managed not to watch porn for 24 hours -
you have locked yourself out of recovery from either avenue.
If you try both neither way will work. You can't
beat lust - it's too universal. You can't
surrender - there's no desperation if you pump yourself up every time you manage for five minutes without porn.
Everyone can and should do whatever works for them.
I for one relate to IMG, HHM and Yiftach -
AMAZING WORK YIFTACH - YOU'RE A LEGEND!!!
If SA speaks to you - do it!!! You'll be a better person for it and you will iyh succeed spectactularly in recovery!
Just don't take half of each approach and succeed with none!
"He who chases two rabbits catches neither."
Thank you hechochma for this very interesting and informative post, food for thought!
I don’t want to hijack our dear yiftachs thread, but I would greatly appreciate it if someone that has directly experienced the 12 steps can shed some light on what you wrote, is this a correct characterization?