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"Creepy" sexual attractions
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TOPIC: "Creepy" sexual attractions 3388 Views

Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 05:26 #388927

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Sapy wrote on 02 Dec 2022 19:20:
I'll also chim I'm with 2 point.

So no, it's not 'Normal' to have such desires etc, most people don't have them, and they are unhealthy, but it's 'Normal' for someone who lacked something in childhood etc to have those desires. 

Second point, I must very much disagree with Human being about this thread, while I appreciate from where your coming, and I admire your wanting to share what works and feels so important to yourself, it is agreed across the board that to handle 'extreme parts', you need a licensed therapist to guide you, any dangerous part, for yourself or others, is not to be 'accepted' or dealt by your own, including suicidal parts, self harm parts, or the ones discussed in this thread. 





To your first point.  -"you say "most people don't have them". Why would "most people not have them", be a reason to say "it is not normal"?
Most people aren't left handed. (10% of people) most GenZers dont follow baseball(18%) most men aren't over 6 feet (16.5%) most people don't have blond hair (6%) most people don't have lenses (11%)  - I wouldn't call any of these "not normal". Based on the estimates, (and i posted the links you can look it up), around 20% of people have interesting desires. So just like lefty's, blondies and lens wearers, people with interesting desires can be considered normal. 

Id love for you give another reason though why its not normal. I respect your opinion that its not normal.

"and they are unhealthy"    -says who? What makes something unhealthy? If you look up the definition of emotionally unhealthy its about "something that interferes with your ability to cope or is not conducive to life",

Non of my desires or feelings or attractions interferes with my ability to cope. I Bh have a handle on them. For those people whose feelings interfere with their ability to cope, then its unhealthy for them. No desire or feeling is inherently unhealthy, unless that specific feeling/desire is "something that interferes with your ability to cope or is not conducive to life",  And that is for each to his own to decide if an attraction of his or a desire or feeling is "something that interferes with your ability to cope or is not conducive to life"

So why would strange desires be conducive to my life you ask?  Our feelings tell us important information about ourselves. Take for example someone like me, whose mind says "be attracted to certain teenagers" This is important information. There is a reason for our desires and feelings. In my case I have figured out through therapy that my feelings and desires are fueled by a need for safety from a young part of me that lacks protection, yet is scared of any males that are bigger then me, hence the attraction to any non-threatening masculinity like specific teenagers. Our feelings in my opinion are unhealthy, only if we decide they are "something that interferes with your ability to cope or is not conducive to life".

All my parts are conducive to life, they are telling me important information about my needs, and for this reason I argue on your second point as well.
I don't see desires/attractions to things that are less common as "extreme parts" unless those parts of you fit into the category of "something that interferes with your ability to cope or is not conducive to life"  ex in my opinion include, wanting to hurt either oneself or other people.
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Last Edit: 05 Dec 2022 06:02 by Human being.

Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 06:35 #388929

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jackthejew wrote on 03 Dec 2022 16:54:

Human being wrote on 02 Dec 2022 19:52:

A jack the jew is in bold @Human being is not bold.


1. but I believe that most of us can control our urges with all the consequences of acting on them. If you cant, or have logical reason to believe you cant, of course please do not put yourself in a compromising position.
As I stated before, Halachically, even someone who actually pulls through and controls his urges but puts himself in a place where he will be tested, is considered to have sinned. On this Chazal said "Al Ta'amin B'atzmecha ad Yom Moscha" and "Ein Apatrapus L'arayos"
HB-Yup. I couldnt agree more.

2.Problem is, when we can't share our feelings/desires and get reassurance that we are normal, it causes us so much unnecessary anxiety. 
The phrasing I would use is "when we can't share our feelings/ desires and get reassurance that there is help to be had in the struggle"     HB -We are going to have to agree to disagree here. We are also normal. (ie not out of the norm)

3.The Jewish world I believe is unfortunately I think its wonderful that they are acknowledging the truth that many normal people are challenged with pedophiliac FEELINGS 20+ yrs behind the non Jewish community on this. We are going to have to agree to disagree here.
Therefore, the non-Jewish world is well on its way to normalizing pedophilia ..........   HB  -I think its wonderful that they  are acknowledging the truth that many normal people are challenged with pedophiliac FEELINGS.  ............ and actually denying treatment to many who suffer from different forms of mental illness based on this ........HB-Well if feelings that are being experienced are not out of the norm, unless a person will hurt themselves or someone else, I see no reason to treat anything. What are we treating?........... I don't like to get political and I don't agree with  a lot  of what Ben Shapiro says, but in his show this Friday www.podbean.com/ew/dir-9deft-15d3576d he covers the topic pretty well

4.To your second point. "Normal" and "regular" I believe, is defined by commonality. One cant say "the world isn't the norm" The norm is what is common. Here's some notes to look up on the commonality. Numerous studies show various attractions are regular. I investigated some of the studies and I want to give you a TRIGGER WARNING. I put in a spoiler to make my post more read-able.
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!


In other words anywhere from 1-9% of people are attracted to children and the numbers of people attracted to teenagers is way higher. Even if we say its just 20% total. We are talking  over 66 million people in the US (66,380,000). Almost 2 million people in New jersey (1,853,400) and over 25 thousand people in Lakewood, (27,614). 1,872,800 in Israel, 7,650,000 in Canada 26,000,000 in Mexico 11,196,000 in England and over 1.6 billion worldwide.   

 I happen to agree that {in most cases} they are not natural but rather nurture derived attractions (emotional neglect/trauma).
But who cares were it comes from? What I care about is the commonality. Commonality is what makes something normal, not its origins. Please go ahead and average out the percentages of people attracted to all the "categories" i brought above and then add them up. There are also numerous categories that aren't brought. But even so, the categories above are sufficient for a 20% number. I am not talking about gender theory. The topics overlap but that is not what I'm discussing here. Id love to discuss it in another thread though. 
A.I would appreciate a source for the 20% number..........HB -Please go ahead and average out the percentages of people attracted to all the "categories" I brought above and then add them up. There are also numerous categories that aren't brought. But even so, the categories above are sufficient for a 20% number..........In regards to the pedophilia numbers, my filter will not allow me to open the links, but much of the theory and work in this area was done by people with a specific agenda in mind, and much of gender theory was actually originated by a pedophile and child abuser with VERY dubious numbers (i.e. generated by sample groups of prisoners in general, and convicted rapists and pedophiles in particular.) ...........       HB   -I am not talking about gender theory. The topics overlap but that is not what I'm discussing here. Id love to discuss it in another thread though. 

B.My definition of "Normal" may be different than yours. I define normal as sexual attractions brought about through normal puberty, not through commonality, which is highly variable and often depends on societal pressures. For example, rates of suicidal ideation are EXTREMELY high for trans kids and teens, however the suicide rates for such kids are skyrocketing in mainly liberal areas.......HB-that is not my definition of normal. My definition of normal is  "not out of the norm" in other words "not unexpected and not out of the ordinary" I do believe I have the right definition here :-)

5The people who don't have the challenge of being attracted to a forbidden genders/age groups/fetishes and don't know how common it is and think its bad/unhealthy/wrong, will never gain the trust of anyone who has this challenge to share their challenge with them. Why would anyone share their challenge with someone who will tell them "your unhealthy" Your unwell' "get help quick", so the people who think its uncommon stay blissfully ignorant.   
As someone who has had QUITE uncommon and bizzare fetishes, I would divide between "Bad", and unhealthy/ wrong. No One is bad for having a thought,  However that is different than unhealthy, as thought patterns and processes are often serious indicators of trauma based, neurological, phsycological, or phsychiatric level problems (A Harvard med study funded by NIH in Aug 2019 on the "gay gene" theory based on a sample group of over 500,000 people worldwide actually linked the genetic profile that may cause gay attraction from birth to: higher rates of depression, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder, lonliness, smoking, and cannabis use. This study was supressed by LGBT rights groups)

HB  -I am going to agree to this whole heartedly. My own personal experience has showed me this is fact. out of the people who have shared with me their struggles, 3/4 of them were bullied. I think bullying specifically has a lot to do with it. I myself have dug deep in therapy and found the many different ways that bullying affected my sexual desires.
Never the less, i don't understand your reasoning here. Yes bulling and all developmental trauma is unhealthy. Why would that make the desires/feelings that are caused as result be unhealthy?  The definition for emotionally unhealthy as far as I know is "something not conducive to life, or ones ability to cope"  Everyone is different. Desires affect people differently. There are so many variables. I don't see any feelings as inherently unhealthy. Feelings desires and attractions communicates to us our needs. Feelings, desires and attractions are Good. Healthy. And not wrong. Only if it is "something not conducive to life, or ones ability to cope", is it emotionally unhealthy. And that is for everyone to decide for themselves, if a feeling/desire or attraction is not conducive to themselves or makes them unable to cope. In my personal journey, it has not hindered my ability to cope, and it is very conducive to my life, my feelings, desires and attractions tell me what my needs are.




No one is a bad person for having thoughts. A schizophrenic still needs medical help. For the thoughts he has are an indicator of illness.
Acceptance of people as people is crucial...........
    HB - i cant see anyone feeling "accepted" when they are told their feelings/desires and attractions are "wrong". ...............Helping in any way we can is paramount. Normalizing unhealthy thoughts leads to normalizing unhealthy behaviors. (Because if the thought processes are normal, what makes the actions bad?)  HB  -God. The law.
Be a part of my 90 day journey! -Destination -90 days, A Human beings journey. Every post and suggestion response and chizzuk is appreciated.



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Last Edit: 05 Dec 2022 06:41 by Human being.

Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 06:44 #388930

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jackthejew wrote on 04 Dec 2022 07:58:



I thank you for and value your opinion. However, I still disagree with your assertion that you can be your own arbiter of what is based on healthy thought patterns and what isn't. To give an extreme example, a schizophrenic will always believe his own hallucinations, but just because HE believes he's healthy doen't mean he doesn't need psychiatric help. That is the entire basis of involuntary comittment. Which has fallen out of favor by the liberal establishment in charge of many major US cities and has led to a catatstrophic homelessness problem. The "rock bottom" of SA is partly a realization that "I'm not doing fine, and I can't function", but until hitting bottom, most people can't bring themselves to admit to something as monumental as that. TO ADMIT IV'E BEEN RUNNING MY LIFE WRONG for any reason? SO it may take a loooong time to recognize that reality. So some of the signs something may be mentally not right include interesting sexual attractions. Someone who has a desire for violent fetish, WHICHEVER side of the equation he visualizes himself on, probably has something underlying that should be worked on.

This is why i brought the numbers. All the links are available. None of the links lead to my articles. ;-)
Be a part of my 90 day journey! -Destination -90 days, A Human beings journey. Every post and suggestion response and chizzuk is appreciated.



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Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 06:59 #388936

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jackthejew wrote on 04 Dec 2022 10:00:


I see this perfectionism. So we can dissagree to disagree. I think we all have wierd parts. They are parts of us and must be accepted loved and welcome. If all..........

I would say not everything is a life altering issue but some things are decent indicators. Perfection is not required, and is frankly unattainable. I would also point out the seemingly inherent contradiction between saying that having feelings (and even maybe acting on them...) doesn't reflect on or impact the actual person and accepting the feeling as part of you. The issue is also not even really the pedophilic feelings as long as one doesn't act on them, as much as the underlying psychological trauma that usually drives those feelings and which should be worked on. But as long as we're calling the feelings normal, then there isn't an indication that any deeper problem exists. Leading real problems and trauma to go untreated for the sake of being compassionate only begets more problems for those truly in need of help

On the first highlighted text, I already commented a bunch of times. we are not here to accept actions. We are here to accept feelings. I'm not sure why you're saying that.

On the second highlighted text, i don't understand why calling something "normal" Definition -'"not out of the ordinary/norm. not unexpected"  is any reason at all to ignore its origins and treat the problem. Viruses are the norm yet we treat them. splinters are normal yet we treat them. Nobody is saying not to treat whatever is causing a feeling/desire etc. On the contrary, only one who isn't scared of his feelings and desires, and is willing to face them, can start understanding its origins and begin working on himself. Problem is, many of us never get to that stage because we are freaked out of going anywhere near our feelings for fear of being "not normal" "creepy" etc. Lets face our feelings. Stare our dirtyist desires in the face and not be scared of them. Then and only then in my opinion can work on ourselves to become better people by controlling those very desires.
Be a part of my 90 day journey! -Destination -90 days, A Human beings journey. Every post and suggestion response and chizzuk is appreciated.



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Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 09:49 #388943

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Human being wrote on 05 Dec 2022 06:59:
On the second highlighted text, i don't understand why calling something "normal" Definition -'"not out of the ordinary/norm. not unexpected"  is any reason at all to ignore its origins and treat the problem. Viruses are the norm yet we treat them. splinters are normal yet we treat them.  On the contrary, only one who isn't scared of his feelings and desires, and is willing to face them, can start understanding its origins and begin working on himself. Problem is, many of us never get to that stage because we are freaked out of going anywhere near our feelings for fear of being "not normal" "creepy" etc. Lets face our feelings. Stare our dirtyist desires in the face and not be scared of them. Then and only then in my opinion can work on ourselves to become better people by controlling those very desires.

The reason we know to treat splinters and viruses is because "Something feels off" (Or "out of the ordinary/ unexpected)
One who constantly goes to the doctor without "feeling something off" has a problem.
Feel free to reach out! jackthejewgye@gmail.com I'll do my best to try and listen! 
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Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 09:56 #388944

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Human being wrote on 05 Dec 2022 06:59:
On the first highlighted text,  (Maybe even acting on them) I already commented a bunch of times. we are not here to accept actions. We are here to accept feelings. I'm not sure why you're saying that.
(Because if the thought processes are normal, what makes the actions bad?) HB  -God. The law.



G-d also says it's wrong to masturbate. And to watch Porn. So are we to judge everyone on this forum who ever fell?
And the law is subjective. If fellings aren't an indicator  (Just a symptom. Having feelings makes us human) that there's something "wrong" until the end action, we are in trouble. Sof Ma'aseh B'machashavah T'chila.[spoiler][/spoiler]
Feel free to reach out! jackthejewgye@gmail.com I'll do my best to try and listen! 
There are tips, tools, and techniques, but there are no shortcuts.
Hard work can grow us to any height.
Lack of work can sink us to any depth.
And you are worth the work because Hashem made you great and you still are.
Last Edit: 05 Dec 2022 10:24 by jackthejew.

Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 09:59 #388945

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Acceptance of people as people is crucial...........    HB - i cant see anyone feeling "accepted" when they are told their feelings/desires and attractions are "wrong".

Wrong is not the right word as much as "symptomatic of something wrong underneath". Which is also what people usually mean when they say "Get Help"
Feel free to reach out! jackthejewgye@gmail.com I'll do my best to try and listen! 
There are tips, tools, and techniques, but there are no shortcuts.
Hard work can grow us to any height.
Lack of work can sink us to any depth.
And you are worth the work because Hashem made you great and you still are.
Last Edit: 05 Dec 2022 10:17 by jackthejew.

Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 10:07 #388946

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Human being wrote on 05 Dec 2022 05:26:

"and they are unhealthy"    -says who? What makes something unhealthy? If you look up the definition of emotionally unhealthy its about "something that interferes with your ability to cope or is not conducive to life",

Non of my desires or feelings or attractions interferes with my ability to cope. I Bh have a handle on them. For those people whose feelings interfere with their ability to cope, then its unhealthy for them. No desire or feeling is inherently unhealthy, unless that specific feeling/desire is "something that interferes with your ability to cope or is not conducive to life",  And that is for each to his own to decide if an attraction of his or a desire or feeling is "something that interferes with your ability to cope or is not conducive to life"

I don't see desires/attractions to things that are less common as "extreme parts" unless those parts of you fit into the category of "something that interferes with your ability to cope or is not conducive to life"  ex in my opinion include, wanting to hurt either oneself or other people.


Quoted from earlier:
What is unhealthy emotionally? First we got to figure out what emotional health is. This is the best definition I found for emotional health.   www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/schools/deal/deal-resources/emotional-health/emotional-health/

"Emotional health is about how we think and feel. It is about our sense of wellbeing, our ability to cope with life events and how we acknowledge our own emotions as well as those of others. It doesn’t mean being happy all of the time."
We can then give the definition of 'emotionally unhealthy' as something "not conducive to our sense of well being, our ability to cope with life events and as well as being not conducive to an ability for self acknowledgment and acknowledgment of others.
So its really based on the general consensus and of individual opinion.


I have highlighted a part of the second quote. Since part of the definition of emotional health is the capacity of "an ability for self acknowledgement", someone can not know without outside help, whether from laymen or professionals, whether he has this capacity or whether whatever he's dealing with has impaired his assesment. It's not just the inability to cope (which also usually can't be self judged), it's the inability to acknowledge the bottom- line reality
Feel free to reach out! jackthejewgye@gmail.com I'll do my best to try and listen! 
There are tips, tools, and techniques, but there are no shortcuts.
Hard work can grow us to any height.
Lack of work can sink us to any depth.
And you are worth the work because Hashem made you great and you still are.

Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 10:16 #388947

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Human being wrote on 05 Dec 2022 06:35:





Therefore, the non-Jewish world is well on its way to normalizing pedophilia ..........   HB  -I think its wonderful that they  are acknowledging the truth that many normal people are challenged with pedophiliac FEELINGS. 
Jackthejew: A decently large number of the same professors advocating to change "pedophiles" to "MAP (Minor Atrracted People) since the feeling is a normal sexual orientation have subsequently been reprimanded or fired for calling for the decriminalization of actual Pedophilia


............ and actually denying treatment to many who suffer from different forms of mental illness based on this ........HB-Well if feelings that are being experienced are not out of the norm, unless a person will hurt themselves or someone else, I see no reason to treat anything. What are we treating?


Hurting one's self doesn't have to come through slitting the throat or whipping one's self bloody. Untreated psychological conditions can have serious impact on quality of life. That's what we're treating. And the fact that 3 to 9% of the population experiences pedophilic feelings doesn't make it in the norm. Especially considering that that number is below the estimated percentage of male youth who are molested (around 10-15%), the trauma of which has been proven to often cause pedophilic tendencies in the victim
Feel free to reach out! jackthejewgye@gmail.com I'll do my best to try and listen! 
There are tips, tools, and techniques, but there are no shortcuts.
Hard work can grow us to any height.
Lack of work can sink us to any depth.
And you are worth the work because Hashem made you great and you still are.

Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 11:50 #388948

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Human being wrote on 05 Dec 2022 05:17:

Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 05 Dec 2022 04:25:

Human being wrote on 05 Dec 2022 00:28:

Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 04 Dec 2022 15:40:
Also, is the “unusual” attraction exclusive? Or does it come along with “normal healthy” attraction to age-appropriate members of the opposite gender? And some people check more than one box. 

Check out Part 6.1 where I address your question.

"Point is, its a person to person basis if something is conducive to them or not. I'm sure in countries where the legal age of consent is lower, it is very conducive, while in country's of older consent is is lesser. It varies by religion. It varies by how strong ones desires are. It varies if that is the only attraction one has or its one of a few or many.    

In summary, If various unique desires are emotionally healthy or not, varies on many variables. Every person is different, pedophilia being the exclusion."



What do you think? Is your question answered?

You addressed the first part of my paragraph, but not the second. You can’t add the percentages up and get a total because many people have more than one of the attractions listed. Personally I can check off at least 3 boxes.  

I'm a little confused here. I don't know what I didn't address. I am agreeing to you that many people check off a few boxes. IM also agreeing with you that these desires can be unhealthy. i do think it can also be healthy for some others (i don't know if you agree with me here)., I'm also saying that no desire  can be called "inherently emotionally unhealthy" . I'm not sure which part of your paragraph I didn't address. Can you ask it again in a new post?

I’m saying that you can’t say that “3% + 4% + 2% etc. = 20%” if those numbers include a lot of the same people. 

And one other thing. You keep on saying that something is normal as long as it doesn’t “interfere with your ability to cope”. 
Perhaps it’s not so normal to need to “cope” all the time.
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Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 12:13 #388949

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There has been a lot of virtual ink spent on this post and having a discussion about anything is helpful and worthy of the time and effort put into some of the replies. 

I have to say that I feel that the original post concentrated too much on certain very subjective words. "Creepy, Normal, Good and Bad, Healthy" and a few others. Why did you spend so much time concentrating on the minutiae or the meanings of the words? They are far too subjective and do not help solve or improve the problem. They are actually meaningless. 

The problem is you are sexually attracted to underaged children. That is a problem by any definition. Why not spend the time to figure out what to do about it? If you feel that it is OK to have those feelings as long as you don't act upon them, that is your right, even though I could not disagree more. I have a feeling that you know that having those feelings are a problem or you would not have written about it in the first place.

Quoting statistics and making analogies (excuses) to justify those thoughts are dangerous. There is NEVER a justification for having sexual thoughts about minors, NEVER!!!!! Saying "as long as you don't act upon them" is extremely dangerous". 

If you are experiencing those thoughts, you need to seek out professional help ASAP! I can't tell you what type of help or where to get it, I just hope and pray that you start the process today. Every child you encounter is a potential victim and society has put these children at risk for far too long.

Good, Bad, Creepy, Normal?? I don't care what you call it, you have a sickness, no different than a broken arm, and it needs to be addressed. Mental illness is a disease and should not be treated any differently than cancer or heart disease. There should be no shame in it, I hope you have supportive people in your life. I am confident that it can be "fixed". Having you on GYE is a good start, and shows you want to live a better life.

People on here care about you and are a great resource. please continue to come on here and discuss and learn. But please stop worrying about the terminology and statistics to justify... because if 99% of society is sexually attracted to children, it is no less wrong or dangerous.

Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 21:39 #388972

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jackthejew wrote on 05 Dec 2022 09:49:

Human being wrote on 05 Dec 2022 06:59:
On the second highlighted text, i don't understand why calling something "normal" Definition -'"not out of the ordinary/norm. not unexpected"  is any reason at all to ignore its origins and treat the problem. Viruses are the norm yet we treat them. splinters are normal yet we treat them.  On the contrary, only one who isn't scared of his feelings and desires, and is willing to face them, can start understanding its origins and begin working on himself. Problem is, many of us never get to that stage because we are freaked out of going anywhere near our feelings for fear of being "not normal" "creepy" etc. Lets face our feelings. Stare our dirtyist desires in the face and not be scared of them. Then and only then in my opinion can work on ourselves to become better people by controlling those very desires.

The reason we know to treat splinters and viruses is because "Something feels off" (Or "out of the ordinary/ unexpected)
One who constantly goes to the doctor without "feeling something off" has a problem.

We are arguing here about what the definition of normal here again. Im sorry I should have added in one word. not out of the norm/unexpected/out of the ordinary. AKA -----common. That is what I mean when i say  "not out of the ordinary/norm. not unexpected"   Aka Common

Viruses are common, blond hair is common, splinters are common, "something feeling off" like not feeling well, is common too
And just because something is not experienced daily, that doesn't mean its uncommon or out of the norm or unexpected.

Same thing with "interesting" desires and feelings. Even if most people do not have the desires, it is still not uncommon or out of the norm or unexpected.
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Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 21:44 #388973

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jackthejew wrote on 05 Dec 2022 09:56:

Human being wrote on 05 Dec 2022 06:59:
On the first highlighted text,  (Maybe even acting on them) I already commented a bunch of times. we are not here to accept actions. We are here to accept feelings. I'm not sure why you're saying that.
(Because if the thought processes are normal, what makes the actions bad?) HB  -God. The law.




G-d also says it's wrong to masturbate. And to watch Porn. So are we to judge everyone on this forum who ever fell?
And the law is subjective. If fellings aren't an indicator  (Just a symptom. Having feelings makes us human) that there's something "wrong" until the end action, we are in trouble. Sof Ma'aseh B'machashavah T'chila.[spoiler][/spoiler]

You are not understanding me here. I'm not trying to have a religious conversation of what is right or wrong. Im also not trying to have a "legality" conversation here. (although we can definitely have that conversation too.) 

I am saying, that just because one accepts his feelings/desires, his reasons (whatever they might be-that's not what I'm discussing here) that prohibit him from acting, remain.   What do you think?
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Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 05 Dec 2022 21:58 #388974

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jackthejew wrote on 05 Dec 2022 09:59:


Acceptance of people as people is crucial...........    HB - i cant see anyone feeling "accepted" when they are told their feelings/desires and attractions are "wrong".

Wrong is not the right word as much as "symptomatic of something wrong underneath". Which is also what people usually mean when they say "Get Help"

Are you agreeing to me here? I believe that the symptom is something we should all accept, because its normal aka- not out of the ordinary, aka- common.  

Are you agreeing to me here as well? If someone thinks that their symptoms are an indicator of childhood trauma/abuse/neglect etc, that they should definitely go for help.   (And as i mentioned in my post, my opinion and personal experience is, that the overwhelming majority of strange feelings/desires are developed as a result of ACEs (Adverse Childhood Experiences).

So it seems we are agreeing. Summary, A) We should accept (aka love, respect, not judge etc) feelings and desires, regardless of how strange they are because as you say  "Wrong is not the right word as much as "symptomatic of something wrong underneath"​ as apposed to the symptom aka the desire/attraction.

And you believe the feelings underneath the desire are emotionally unhealthy.  I barely disagree with this. You are saying with 100% certainty that this is true, And i am saying "this has been my experience, and i believe it to be the overwhelming reason.

So do we agree? If not what are we arguing about?
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Re: "Creepy" sexual attractions 06 Dec 2022 11:34 #389020

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Human being wrote on 05 Dec 2022 21:58:

jackthejew wrote on 05 Dec 2022 09:59:


Acceptance of people as people is crucial...........    HB - i cant see anyone feeling "accepted" when they are told their feelings/desires and attractions are "wrong".

Wrong is not the right word as much as "symptomatic of something wrong underneath". Which is also what people usually mean when they say "Get Help"

Are you agreeing to me here? I believe that the symptom is something we should all accept, because its normal aka- not out of the ordinary, aka- common.  

Are you agreeing to me here as well? If someone thinks that their symptoms are an indicator of childhood trauma/abuse/neglect etc, that they should definitely go for help.   (And as i mentioned in my post, my opinion and personal experience is, that the overwhelming majority of strange feelings/desires are developed as a result of ACEs (Adverse Childhood Experiences).

So it seems we are agreeing. Summary, A) We should accept (aka love, respect, not judge etc) feelings and desires, regardless of how strange they are because as you say  "Wrong is not the right word as much as "symptomatic of something wrong underneath"​ as apposed to the symptom aka the desire/attraction.

And you believe the feelings underneath the desire are emotionally unhealthy.  I barely disagree with this. You are saying with 100% certainty that this is true, And i am saying "this has been my experience, and i believe it to be the overwhelming reason.

So do we agree? If not what are we arguing about?

We shouldn't always "accept" symptoms as permanent features of our life. Many (not all) can be changed through work on underlying issues. If help is needed, does it make a difference if it's common or not? BTW when people say something isn't normal, I don't think they refer to "Common", I think they mean "not dysfunctional, or coming as a result of a healthy or regular functioning process". So although want to say these attactions are normal by your definition, you should also consider that that's probably not what the usual usage of the term "normal" means when it comes to health. Something caused by trauma, abuse, or any adverse process is NOT normal by this definition. When people are told "this isn't healthy" or "you need to get help", that's because there's something there that isn't natural, so work must be done.
Feel free to reach out! jackthejewgye@gmail.com I'll do my best to try and listen! 
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Hard work can grow us to any height.
Lack of work can sink us to any depth.
And you are worth the work because Hashem made you great and you still are.
Last Edit: 06 Dec 2022 11:37 by jackthejew.
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