I really thought I was good, and honestly, in many ways, I was. I think I understood what led me to fall and learned how to change that instead of white-knuckling. And it worked. For the first time since I was a teenager, I was clean for a truly extended period - 224 days.

And then, lately, I was letting things go a bit. I was listening to music that I shouldn't and not being careful not to look at what I shouldn't. And slowly, it broke barriers.

The past two weeks have been tough, and on a long drive last night, I listened to something I shouldn't and fell. 

I wasn't sure if it was counted, so I decided I won't count it as a fall unless it happens again.

And then today, I fell in earnest.

Here's the thing. Last night I just felt numb. I didn't feel upset that I fell. I just didn't care. I WANTED to care, but I didn't really. And then I scared myself about being punished, which frightened me a bit, but I really just felt nothing.

And then today, I fell.

Please don't come telling me how great I am because I'm not great for the time. Sure, it's a great thing that will have immeasurable Schar, but I don't think I'm great for doing what I should've done, especially after I fell again.

But has anyone else has similar feelings as me? Just not caring?

I've been upset with situations within my marriage regarding bedroom life (which I've touched on in the Baal Habatim forums), and that's part of what went through my mind. Like, I'll just do it here instead. Of course, it doesn't make me feel good, but the honest truth is that until I was clean, this really wasn't an issue in my marriage because I took In out here.

But what bothers me most is the not caring part. I never would've ever imagined that I would feel this way. I would do anything to stop, and it took up my life, and then this just numbness.

Part of what helped me fall was that unknown to me my computer filter seems to have stopped working so that opened the door wide. What does everyone recommend for a new filter?

So I'm thinking, what would I tell a client who expressed what I did.

1- The feeling of not caring is not actually what you feel. If you actually didn't care, you wouldn't be writing this or reaching out.

What this is, is most likely the body's inability to deal with such a thing because you care so much, and it matters so much. Because of this, the body goes into a state of not being able to feel. This is often found with people who go through tragedy, and to you, this IS a tragedy. It's literally because you care so much that you feel this way.

In general, yes, you deserve praise because it was hard (struggling with this one because, after all, isn't it true that I'm EXPECTED not to do aveiros? I would love some clarity here. I’m sure I would know a better answer for a client, but it's hard to get out of my own mind.) 

Some other points.

This fall can be made to become something positive if 1-it causes me to become better than before because of something I gained from falling 2- if I get back up, I'm showing that not only have I overcome, but I've overcome even the temptation after falling while wanting to give up - something so much greater.

RE learning from this and leading to something better - I haven't gotten over lust, and I've pushed away that idea. This fall opened my eyes to this idea on a greater level. I’m okay withOUT giving in to lust. I don't need lust. When I give up lust, I think I make room for so much growth and possibly lead to fixing the struggle in my marriage and bedroom life.

Okay, that's all for now.

Later.

Oh, I also need to post here more often.

First Congratulations on your long streak. remember this streak is yours forever, and your days clean are yours forever no matter what happened afterwards.

I read your firs post and I wanted to write back, and I see that you wrote my answer. I really feel your pain and numbness.

you should realize that you are holding on a very high level that this is so traumatic for you.

And another point, a fall does not necessary have to be a RELAPS it could be lapse. if some ones has a fall once a year then he does not associate himself as a... its only a person that has a history.... for sure we have to learn from our mistakes, but make sure you don't make this in to relapse. don't let your history make this a relapse your history is ''HISTORY''

Hatzlacha !!!

Regarding a filter, Techloq is by far the best for windows computers

I know the feeling and have been there too. It's important to start trying again. I 5hink when it happened to me I felt numb because I didn't want to think about what happened. Reality is that we are human and falling is part of life. Yes, it was a long streak but starting the count helps. If we continue to fall after eventually emotions will catch up and we feel like we are back at square one. If we are better after regardless then within a few days or weeks it feels like a victory. Yes we fall, but now I have it more under control! One slip between two long streaks is more of a win then a loss because it shows how much we've grown. We can control it for the most part, it doesn't control us. Hang in there and never give up!!!

withgdthereshope wrote on 27 Jul 2021 04:58:

This was a genius post. I learned so much from it and I wanted to comment.


You're the expert. But from my own experiences you're very likely to be right. I think that with any feeling of numbness that might be due to overload, we should assume that that's what it's coming from. And the most important thing to do first is to tell ourselves that "this is not me; i'm just feeling overwhelmed and it's causing this feelings, but they are not my identity." Otherwise we make ourselves crazy because we look down on that we don't care. (This is not only in areas of taivah. It's also with depression and then suddenly feelings of lack of caring about Hashem and mitzvos, or lack of caring about the importance of learning Torah suddenly when burnt out and feeling not successful at the end of a long zman in yeshiva, and a million other times.)


Please read The Battle of the Generation for more about this, especially the first two chapters. (Link is in my signature. There's a free pdf download there and a link to buy the book on amazon. I'm sure that as a therapist you will like it and find a lot of valuable insights in it.)


See Chapters 11 and 21 in that book about these two points.


I think anyone, no matter how much success they've achieved, is opening themselves up to tremendous danger and challenges if they start with things of "minor arousal" like minor inappropriate music or movies or lusting (desirous looks and thoughts) or "checking my filter." It doesn't get you to run and give in right away, but it awakens the subconscious desires. And they are stronger then for the next couple of weeks, and each challenge becomes much harder.

Also this idea you mentioned about not needing lust is one of the major keys for overcoming temptation. I have to tell myself, "it's fun and enjoyable when it's in a permitted way, but it is not the point of my life or greatest thing in it (even about when in a permissible way), and I don't NEED it."


Definitely! Even for us. We have a lot to gain from your insight, as anyway can see from this gem of a post. Thank you!

I have at times felt the feelings you are expressing of I don’t care about this anymore. I have a non existent bedroom life (see my thread https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/362141-Can-anyone-relate). I have come really close to falling. In fact I have done things which made me consider restarting my count. Ultimately what held me back the last time at the last second was knowing that although I’m missing physical intimacy in my marriage and I feel justified to view porn…really…. It won’t replace what I’m missing. Nothing can. It’s the painful reality. I can cry. I can kick.  I can scream. I can view porn…and I’ll still be missing what I want/need. So although I may not care about my count…what’s the point of viewing if I’ll still feel lacking…?
Hatzlacha!

withgdthereshope wrote on 27 Jul 2021 04:58:

Wow you articulated everything that can and should be said so well!
I have nothing to add except... that since you technically answered all your questions...You don't really need anyone telling you what you should do or feel... rather you just need to listen to yourself more often ... 

Also you are not 'expected' never to do aveiros...
​That's why we get schar... cuz its hard.
We are expected to try.
And we are supposed to get help when we can't do it alone.

And as you wrote, posting here. It has so many benefits.
Hatzlacha!

griner wrote on 27 Jul 2021 05:53:

Thank you very much for this. Been feeling pretty horrible emotionally today and didn't have the strength to respond until now, but your response means a lot to me.

Striving Avreich wrote on 27 Jul 2021 09:38:

I find them extremely difficult to use with so much being blocked that shouldn't be. Last night I downloaded Netspark because I didn't want to leave the computer unfiltered. Any thoughts on how good they are?

iamnotapuppy wrote on 27 Jul 2021 11:43:

I was thinking about this throughout the day today, especially the part about how I would feel that way if I fall back in. Thank you for this.

I went through today without any massive urges. Feels quite gross seeing a zero days on my chart, but I'm trying to think about how it's what I've reached as a person and not simply a count of days.

Captain wrote on 27 Jul 2021 15:23:


I so very much appreciate this long, thought-out response. (Gave some Karma - not sure if that does anything though

For some reason my response to Captain is gSetting cut off. Not letting me post it. Anyone know what's up?

withgdthereshope wrote on 28 Jul 2021 00:00:

Thanks! Much appreciated