I was having yet another discussion with my wife about this forum and how helpful it has been.  Specifically, I was talking about the 12-steps.

She has a lot of reservations because, in her own experience, she knew some people who were in 12-step programs and they were just kinda' weird.  AND, they just kinda stayed that way.

On one hand, there are these amazing stories of people who miraculously recovered as soon as they joined a 12-step group.

Is this what happens to most people in the program?

How common is it that the people in the group--or especially the people leading the group--might not really be doing the 12-steps properly.  For example, people in OA who never really get past their food issues.

Any insights on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

  --Eye.

Do Dov and Duvid Chaim and Elya and Boruch strike you ask quacks? If yes, I wanna be a quack too!!

Actually, in these groups, they kind-of admit that they're quacks. But guess what? That's the first sign that they are probably saner than most of us addicts!  

Have your wife read through Miri's thread on the women's section here. She used the Steps for both OA and lust addiction, and she was so successful and inspiring to us all!

P.S. Don't let it bother you if this doesn't work. My wife thinks 12-Steppers are quacky too  ;D

The answer to your question happens to be, that it's like saying "people who eat donuts are quacky". Some are and some aren't. It has nothing to do with the donuts. A normal person who goes into a 12 step program - doesn't become wierd, the same way a wierd person who goes in, won't become normal.
Besides the point, if doing teshuvah, and really getting past this thing meant becoming wierd, you wouldn't do it? (And here comes the guilt trip) Is your sanity really more important to you than your purpose of existing? ie: Are you not willing to give up your sanity for H-shem?
I had that feeling for a long time, not just about 12 steps, but about all things having to do with idealism. Basically, whether you like it or not, if someone genuinely cares about anything for the sake of H-shem, or what is right - in our world that's considered wierd. You can wear tefillin, you can daven, you can learn, you can even put on a beard. But if someone loves H-shem... What's wrong with him? Did he snap? What is he Uncle Moishy or something?
So in the worst possible scenario, you can say it's going from true craziness - to normalicy, which unfortunately the world around you considers to be wierd.
I am very opinionated in this matter, so feel free to ignore whatever you disagree with.

I would like to respond with a quote from my brother.

MOST OF THE WORLD IS CRAZY! THE REST?? ARE REALLY CRAZY!! AND THEYRE THE NORMAL ONES!!!!







Vehamavin yavin!

I read somewhere, that the queen of England went to visit an asylum or mental institution (I'm not sure of the politically correct way of saying it).
Anyways, she shmoozed with some of the people there, and before she left, she said to them "The truth is, in reality you shouldn't be here, because you are the normal ones, and we are the insane. But this is the way it is, because we are the majority."

Now, I don't think anyone would say that they are really the normal ones. What I think she meant was actually something very smart. There is a certain perception that one can have of meaning and of importance. Sadly, it is very rare for a sane person to be able to tap into this perception. And as a result, the overwhelming majority of the world - have no idea what they want, or who they are, or what will make them feel satisfaction and bring them happiness. Interestingly however, insane people out there have a very good chance of this perception, it's just that they lack the power of expression. So to us their just nuts.
Just an interesting thought,

KG

My friend, ask your wife to define normal and define weird.

If weird mean being focused on developing your strengths, admitting your weakness's and accepting the limitations that they place on you, If weird means knowing what you value and living life based on your values( my life is worth more than pron). If weird means focusing on making Hashem and His Will a major focus in your life. If weird means working to repair your relationships and deepening them. If weird is the rest of the blessings of recovery and becoming a very real person.
I would embrace WEIRD any day of the week.

Maybe we need to accept ourselves a weird also.

Holy Yid wrote on 20 Dec 2009 02:32:
Yes IM A WIERDO TOO!!!!! At least i hope so. :-\

guardureyes wrote on 19 Dec 2009 19:05:


Chas V'chalila!  Chalila V'chas!

I wasn't referring to the GUE groups.

It was just a general question about OTHER 12-step groups.

Thankyou everyone for your responses.