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The Truth
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A platform of recovery for Jews who find themselves struggling with addictions to pornography, masturbation or other sexual problems. Post anonymously about your struggles without fear of anyone finding out who you are. Ask questions, post answers and be inspired! Get tips and guidance from the experts who moderate this forum, as well as from fellow strugglers.

TOPIC: The Truth 2021 Views

Re: The Truth 02 Jun 2021 05:30 #369330

Snowflake wrote on 01 Jun 2021 13:16:
Great thread, thank you for sharing everything with us.
Simon Sinek says something along the lines of dr. Brown: "Loving someone, is giving the power to this person to destroy you and yet this very person chooses not to". Of course I'm not advocating sharing your struggle with your wife. This seems to be a big machlokes tonoyim here lol. But what he says makes so much sense. Being vulnerable is about opening up and is a supreme proof of trust that the other won't squash you. It can also be one of the most courageous acts one can make.

Firstly, my wife is in the loop. She is very supportive, but it took a long time and many tears to get to that point. It's not for everyone, and when it is right, it has to be done very carefully. (I don't think it's a machlokes by the way, I think people just share what they feel based on their experiences and as each experience is different each persons opinion is different as well. Why people here thing everyone else is exactly like themselves is beyond me, but that's for another time.)

Brene Brown talks about the three C's Courage Compassion and Connection. She is not focusing on love at all (from what I understand), rather on how to live with ourselves and others without getting "burned". It's usually exceptionally hard for "low self esteemers" to connect, because we have this fear of being burned by others (we don't trust people) or, we have a fear of "being found out" (that we are really a fraud, and are really awful people once you get to know us...). Sometimes, the fear is irrational, but sometimes it's from past experiences. 

It's not easy to connect, real connection means being vulnerable and honest with others. She writes that at the same time, it's important to find someone that is safe, someone that will actually listen to you without being judgmental, who won't offer more than asked for etc. She has a long list of types of people who are not worth sharing with. In short, the best people to share with are wholesome people who are really comfortable with themselves and don't have anything to prove. 

Compassion, is to set boundaries for yourself (not something I am very good at). Rabbi Tweski talks about this a lot. He calls it "people pleasing" doing things to make people like us (or for us to like ourselves). I think this is a similar concept. He writes that the first step to a healthy self esteem is to stop with this activity. He goes so far as to compare this to alcohol of an alcoholic, who cannot begin any sort of psychological treatment until he is sober. 

But about opening up, it is courageous, but it also has to be to the right person. The safest person to be brutally honest about these things is is probably not your wife. Yes, it helps to have her support, but this is not about support, it' about becoming real, about living with reality. Sometimes a therapist is good, sometimes a real close friend, but I don't think our wives need to be our therapist. To really do this properly, it's way too much pain. This needs to be done with someone who is trusted, but who can handle you giving them the whole truth. I don't know, I just don't see sharing all the details with your wife ending well.
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com
Last Edit: 02 Jun 2021 07:37 by wilnevergiveup.

Re: The Truth 02 Jun 2021 06:16 #369332

Now for some learning; Torah and the 12 steps coming right up from the Beis Medrash of Harav Cordnoy Shlita. I was actually in the middle of putting something together based on Rav Dessler on the first step, and lo and behold, Cordnoy did it already. 

It's good stuff. 

It's the age old question with a 12 steps angle. Good reading for anyone interested in understanding bechira a little better especially how it related to us.
cordnoy wrote on 19 Sep 2014 17:23:
Lately, the topic has been about composin' a rhyme
but I'd like to switch to the 12 steps - one day at a time

ok....forget that (the rhymin' that is)

A new book is bein' published, and we have gotten hold of the rough draft of it.
from Rabbi tannenbaum.

firstly, he discusses the necessity and the purpose behind the 12 steps.
That is crucial stuff!

but then, he gets into the main topic: Are the steps against the Torah? Are they sourced in other religions? Are we veerin' from our tradition?

Here is the openin' question:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol -- that our lives had become unmanageable.
In this step, the Jew is asked to admit that he cannot stop his addiction on his own, and that his life has now become unmanageable as a result.
Certainly, admitting to one’s self a fault or shortcoming does not need a source. The idea of admitting that his shortcoming has caused his life to become chaotic also does not need a source.
The question that people ask on this step lies in the word “powerless”. This word seems to imply that the alcoholic or addicted Jew does not have free will to stop their maladaptive behavior-here, the Jewish AA critics scream “but this cannot be because Hashem gives every Jew free will, and the Ramban teaches that God does not give any Jew a test that he cannot pass!? Surely, then, Jewish addicted people can stop drinking or drugging at any time, and step one of AA is against the Torah?!”
By adding an exclamation mark and question mark at the end of the previous sentence, I attempted to convey to you the excitement and bewilderment that the AA critics usually show on their facial expressions when asking this question.

dd wrote on 21 Sep 2014 03:24:
Cordnoy i have a question on this matter,

Why is powerless against the idea of bechirah b'chlal?

The whole idea of powerless doesn't mean its not possible to over come. It means i'm powerless of doing it on my own. I myself can't overcome the addiction. But with help from hashem and the other steps i could. This is something we see in chazal too. אלמלא הקב"ה עוזרו אינו יכול לו. Many times in chazal and in the seforim hakdoshim we see the idea that a person can do nothing on his own even good or bad.

In the deeper seforim like R' Tzodak Z"l sfas emes etc we see that even the good we do we aren't really doing.

Maybe i'm missing something if you could please explain.

Thanks Avraham!!!!

cordnoy wrote on 21 Sep 2014 06:30:
Well, I wasn't gonna go out of order, but once DD asked his question and mentioned this Gemora, I will skip to a later portion where R"T quotes R"T:

We cannot complete this discussion without bringing Rabbi Twerski’s favorite Gemara on the topic. Rabbi Twerski is fond of quoting the Gemara (source-see Kiddushin 30b) which says “the evil inclination of man becomes stronger than him each day and tries to kill him…and if God did not intervene and help out, there would be no way for the man to overcome it [the evil inclination]”. The Maharsha and Iyun Yakov explain that this Gemara is actually referring to a righteous person who truly wants to do the right thing, and nonetheless, the evil inclination is so powerful that it is actually impossible to overcome him without Hashem’s aid (source-see Maharsha and Iyun Yakov in Kidushin 30b). So what is this Gemara teaching us? That even people who have free will and truly want to choose good are powerless! Understand the chidush of this Gemara because it is a great chidush! Is there any better source for “powerlessness” than this?! I suppose that is why Rabbi Twerski is so fond of it.
This powerlessness over the evil inclination is certainly true of the wicked people who have no strong desire to overcome their evil inclination. This is supported by several other chazals, vian kan makom liha’arich.

Continuation:

Once we are discussing ways to qualify “free will”, it is fitting to tell you what R’ Eliyahu Dessler famously says about it; this also sheds light on step one and closely resembles the idea laid down by R’ Volbe.
R’ Dessler coined a concept called “Nekudas HaBechira”, which means that a person always has a choice in every situation of temptation, but what exactly is the nature of a person’s “free will” will depend on the individual at that time, and with those circumstances; the nature of his free will may even change every day of his life.
According to R’ Dessler, free will is when a person’s level of truth meets face to face with his level of sheker, thereby creating doubt. In this place of doubt, where one can choose either way, we say that he has free will. Of course, it must be a situation where the person’s nature plays no role on choosing one way or another, because if so, then this again is not considered “free will”.
If I am correct, this teaching of R’ Dessler seems to mirror the words of R’ Volbe above.

As we continue on:

R’ Dessler gives several clear examples to illustrate his point-a Rosh Yeshiva will never take a gun and murder people in a shopping mall when he is angry. Therefore, in regards to murder he has no free will to murder. Similarly, an angry, disgruntled neurotic man with a loaded assault rifle in his car trunk will have no free will not to murder people after being laid off from his job. In either case, their nature will motivate them to kill or not kill.
Free will exists only be in a case where either the neurotic man or Rosh Yeshiva has a doubt about what to do, and choose one way or another.
R’ Dessler continues to explain that as a person does teshuva, his level of free will moves up. Conversely, when a person sins, his point of free will moves down.
See R’ Dessler in Michtav Me’Eliyahu, volume one, p. 10, p. 113, and volume 4 p. 95.
In either of the two extreme cases where a person does total evil or total good, they will also lose their free will entirely, and be subject to the whim of their evil or holy nature, and their free will is taken away (See Tanya chapter 17 who discusses this at length, and the Ba’al Shem Tov in Kesser Sheim Tov 152 who mentions this in passing).


cordnoy wrote on 23 Sep 2014 15:45:
Just to support this idea even further, the Ramchal (source-see Mesilas Yisharim, chapter two, end) says “it is obvious that even if a person supervises his conduct, it is not within his power to overcome the evil inclination without the aid of Hashem”.
This idea is so transparent in the Torah that the Ramchal said it is “obvious”; it is therefore truly astounding how ignorant AA critics make an empty fuss over the world powerlessness in step one! It is astounding that they err about something so “obvious”!

cordnoy wrote on 23 Sep 2014 21:04:
Conclusion about step one
Conclusion: We have seen from R’ Avigdor Miller that it is possible to lose free will in one area, while still having free will in other areas of behavior. We also saw from R’ Volbe, R’ Dessler, R’ Miller, and R’ Nachman that although every Jew has some sort of choice, he may not have choice over his behavior. The only choice he may have is to learn how to choose better than the way he is choosing right now, by joining AA, talking to a Rebbi, or in other ways. We also saw from R’ Volbe that some Jews never even learned how to choose in the first place, and they are held responsible for not learning how to have free will, but they still have no free will over their actual actions at the end of the day, making it correct to say that they are “powerless” to stop. Finally, we saw from the Gemara in Kidushin 30b that even Tzadikim who have free will and want to choose good are still powerless to the overwhelming power of their evil inclination. So to wrap it up:
a) Some people don’t have free will
b) Even the people that do have free will are still powerless to the yetzer hara without Hashem’s assistance, and this is true even about Tzadikim, and certainly about Rishaim


There you have it, the Cordnoy discourse on free will and the first step.
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com
Last Edit: 02 Jun 2021 07:33 by wilnevergiveup.

Re: The Truth 02 Jun 2021 20:03 #369362

Here is the famous "Capitan Kirk" post from Dov. I must have read it 100 times and never really understood it properly. Just now, something clicked. I think you have to experience it (sharing with a real person) to really get it and that's when it finally clicked by me.

I really relate to the double life not just in my lusting but in my battle of self esteem and worthiness. People with low self esteem should be able to relate to this a lot. We have the real me, the one who no one is allowed to see and we have the fake me, the one I am willing to show to the world. When keeping up the fake me becomes to overwhelming, we are forced to face the "real me" and that can be very painful. This is because we developed ourselves into believing that the real me is not a life worth living. 

Joining the two together is the only way to live normally and as Dov says, needs to happen by opening up to someone else. I am not quite there yet, but I can say that finding someone who I trust and can spill it all out to and be brutally honest about my struggles and shortcomings has so far been very powerful. 

Here is Dov:

There was once an episode of Star Trek in which there was a time travel shtick, and the Kirk of the present, went 10 years into the past. Now, there was another Kirk then, too, right?

That was a big problem. The scientists told him that normally two of the same people cannot coexist. It just does not happen. But as this was an exception (it was a TV show and they were getting paid $15,000 per episode) as long as the old Kirk did not actually meet the present Kirk, all would be fine. However, if they actually met each other, the entire Time-Space Continuum would be 'ripped asunder' (chas veSholom). Under no circumstances could they be allowed to meet!

I do not remember what actually happened to Mr Shatner, but everything turned out OK for there were another few seasons of the show (and also we are all still here, no?). But my point is just this:

How does a frum guy get all drawn into his very private porn, admitting by his actions its awesome, sweet power for him, and privately have sex with himself (masturbate) with such intensity and imaginative pleasure and power? OK, so he has shame, self-loathing, and sadness afterward. But how does he do both tefillin, teaching Torah, being mekareiv and really davening for others hard and really crying for the churban, and really working on his middos....and masturbating himself with a fantasy that could only mean he (secretly) also worships the beauty and power of those naked shiksas and the act of sex? How does such a contradiction survive in him?

How does it survive in us?
My answer to myself is simple. We learn to lie a little. We lie to others and we lie to ourselves. We'll quit really soon. We won't do it any more when we are twenty....or fifty. Never on Shabbos. Never with masturbation. Etc. All lies, to ourselves. And over time, we learn to lie more and more without even noticing it, just as you cannot see yourself grow.

When we are being good, we feel good about ourselves and we wish we could forget the bad stuff we did last night - we call that a hirhur teshuvah. Really it is just so we do not hate ourselves so badly, but that's OK. We learn not to face it right now by pretending that we are 'forgiven' by Hashem. That way, one persona does not invade the other so much. It gets put off till the next time, if we are lucky.

When we are being 'bad', we wish we could forget how devoted we are to Hashem and His Torah and to our wives and children and to honesty with society - because it just feels so good to do the porn and we really see no way out of it. We know we need it and do not in a million years believe there is really an alternative for us, in the end. We end up 'ignoring' our kedusha during the act. That is lying to ourselves, and again, one persona does not see the other simultaneously. Pretending we are really rotten to the core is a much more comfortable way to act out. Nu. Who wants to hurt so much?

We walk about for years and are tortured inside, for we know the dichotomy we are hiding - we are the dichotomy. But we do not really know what to do. We fight to make one side gain mastery over the other and call that hisgabrus al hayeitzer. And we fall. Then we assume we are horrible Jews, and assume that Hashem agrees with us about that. That mistake is a hard one to shake...(see step 2)

So now about the time-travel dilemma.
When we open up to others under a username (or fake English name in a meeting) and share the entire truth (which most rarely do) about our addiction, we are still hiding our 'good' persona - the real me. It's OK to let them know the horrible dirt - yeah, all of it - as long as they do not know the 'good' persona too well. The two are just incompatible.

Thos who got caught by their wives or children know exactly what I am talking about. They understand why they getting caught was so effectivbe for a time - the desire to use the porn left them as a result of getting both personae dragged into the room at the same time. The horror of getting caught with my pants down by a co-worker, son, daughter, or wife is truly intolerable to anyone who has experienced it. Why?

Because the hypocrisy is mercilessly forced to come to a bitter end. The Time-Space Continuum has ripped asunder. We look frantically for a place to bury ourselves. It's hell.

It is the two Kirks being forced to see eachother by a third party - and only a party who knows both personae can possibly do that. Till that happens, we are all players. Lying a bit about the 'real us' to ourselves and to others.

Some of us insist on solving our problem without bringing the two personae together. Perhaps they are just avoiding the terribly painful end of their hypocrisy, perhaps not. I do not know what is best for another. But in my own case, I got caught, and it still didn't help. After a few weeks I was back at it and it got worse and worse until I couldn;t take it any more. i was begging for someone to rip off my cover and get me real! My wife could not do that, for she does not understand what I am talking about when I describe the desperation to get the sweet porn in my mind and heart and does not understand the allergy to it that I have.

So I needed real meetings - with real addicts. Perverts for decades who chose the path of sobriety because they had no choice. Just like me. People who can hear both sides of me. And I use my real name, wear my normal Jewish outfit, and talk with them freely about my real life.

And that flows out into being real with everybody else in my life, whether they know about my problem, or not.

And that is why so many of us are OK with goyim in meetings, but shrink into a corner when they meet a frum yid. There is a common strong desire to avoid and evade. And I do not blame them, for I had that, too. Here is a guy who can bring them even closer to the true full self! It's more pain to go through. But more healing, too.

Interestingly, I have seen newly recovering program-guys meet people from the meeting in public places just 'out of the blue' and totally ignore them, as if they didn't know them at all. Those guys did not remain sober. I think they may have been shocked by the cross-over from their 'meeting life' into their 'real life'. They were not willing to smile discreetly and say a polite "Hi" to the other guy. Instead, here was trouble - "so get away from me quick." Oy vavoi.

This is precisely why AA has a strong tradition of real anonymity. We do not reveal the identity of anyone else we meet in the rooms to non-members. Ever. But it's not about shame, at all. It's because sharing the secrets of others will not help their recovery at all! Only the truth that they want to share will help them.

Those who just get caught and stay clean out of fear of further humiliation never, ever stay better. Getting humiliated into sobriety does not work, until there is some humility added. Humilty (in hachno'oh to the truth) is the underpinning of the steps.

And that is why 'accountability groups' are nice but will ultimately fail, as long as they are based on avoiding shame - which they can easily become all about.

And that is why opening up to the wife (and remaining consistently open with her) is so very powerful - when done at the right time. It is powerful medicine for my recovery and powerful medicine for the marriage. Honesty there removes yet another layer of hiding from ourselves that has to go to the boards for true freedom.

Sharing my credit card number and address would not do any of these things for me, and neither would pulling up my pant-leg. It's not about compromising my security, nor my anonymity. It's not about getting hurt nor for the sake of being punished for all my wrongs until I can finally be good. This is not Teshuvah and it is not sigufim. It's all and only about being the real me with everyone that I can be, to the extent that I can be without violating the health of my family and others. We do the best we can in that, and ask Hashem to make it work right. And it works, period.

Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com
Last Edit: 03 Jun 2021 18:45 by wilnevergiveup.

Re: The Truth 02 Jun 2021 20:35 #369363

Here is a vort that I wrote a while back that is relevant to "being powerless without the help of G-d" and it's from this weeks parsha so you can say it at the Shabbos table if you'd like.
wilnevergiveup wrote on 13 Aug 2020 20:35:

The question of Hashem stepping in, Chazal tell us that head to head with the Y"H we are goners, we have no chance. Our only option is to rely on Hashem.

Rav Yeruchem Levovitz explains by the story of the meraglim, that even though they were great tzadikim, they were not able to withstand the nisayon because the the Y"H was indeed to great for them to handle on their own. Only Kalev and Yehoshua were able to stand up to the test because they had special siyata dishmaya, Yehoshua because Moshe davened for him and Kalev because he stopped by the kivrei avos.
Without special siyatah dishmaya even the greatest tzadikim just don't match up.

Rav Yeruchem explains that when chazal say "without Hashem's help we would not be able to stand up to the Y"H" it means that our bechira takes place only once we are zoche to siyata d'shmaya but without it, even the greatest of people didn't stand a chance. They lost their bechira.

(Why they lost there bechira is a different story. He explains that the bechira took place when they chose to do bad. They were ba l'tamei and when are ba l'tamei we lose our siyata d'shmaya (poschin lo). Hashem doesn't cause us to sin, rather He just revoves His siyata d'shmaya.)

It seems from here that we "lose" our bechira when we are ba l'tamei and the only way to get our free will back is through tefillah as was the case by Kalev and Yehoshua.
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com

Re: The Truth 03 Jun 2021 06:27 #369389

I had an epiphany yesterday about accepting ourselves. For a long time, I lived with a chip on my shoulder, I always felt like I had to prove myself. I still do but to a lesser degree. When things don't work out in our "proving myself" plan, then we feel a sense of unworthiness (because we tied our worthiness to "proving ourselves").

In order to get through those terrible feelings of unworthiness, I learned to tell myself, "you are still a good guy even if you didn't learn your 4 hours b'ritzufos or whatever". That is great for when it's about the extras, the unreasonable things, but what about when I go into a depression, when I can't drag myself out of bed? What can I tell myself now?

In the past I would say, well, at least you davened, at least you said something nice etc. You may not have had the best day in the world but you still had a good day because at least you went to Yeshiva (even if only at 11:00).

I said all that but it's not very convincing. Here is my new take. I can tell myself "I had a hard day" and that's okay. It's okay for people to have a hard time. I don't have to pretend that hard days are good, just not perfect. They are hard, and good people also have a hard time sometimes.

This was so liberating. Lying to oneself can become very tiring. Accepting that I am still good even though I have bad days (instead of making those bad days into good ones) is a big step. The old way is that my day doesn't need to be perfect to be good. The new mehalech is that I don't have to be perfect to be good (or worthy). 

This is what I'm working through right now, trying to be real and honest with myself.

Just sharing.
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com

Re: The Truth 03 Jun 2021 06:56 #369391

cordnoy wrote on 06 May 2015 12:09:
DAILY RENEWAL QUESTIONS

1) Are you willing to admit you are powerless over lust and sexual acting out, just
for today?
2) Do you desire sobriety for the next 24 hours: freedom from sexual obsession
and acting out, freedom from fear, resentment, shame, and isolation?
3) Are you willing to do whatever is necessary to protect this desire including
spiritual reading, reaching out and calling others, prayer and meditation, physical
care of your body, setting appropriate boundaries, and refusing all lust hits as
toxic?
4) Just for today, do we commit to God and this group that we do not have to
have sex with ourselves or anyone else (except a spouse) no matter what,
realizing that at the end of this 24 hours we are free to continue with sobriety or
go another way?
5) Do you understand that this renewal does not keep you sober (God does), but
it does make you aware of yourself and accountable to others?
6) And, just for today, are you willing with me to hand over your will and the care
of your life to the One Who kept you sober yesterday and has protected you from
the full consequences of your lust in the past?
7) Have you done anything in the last 24 hours that you’re ashamed of?
8. Are we aware of anything in our plans for the next 24 hours of which we might
become ashamed? Any danger zones, slippery spots on the horizon, or hidden
bottles we should bring to the light?


I should probably do this with someone. Any volunteers?

You can PM or email me.
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com
Last Edit: 03 Jun 2021 17:49 by wilnevergiveup.

Re: The Truth 03 Jun 2021 18:14 #369422

Found this on Cordnoy's thread. Relates a lot to what I'm going through now.
Markz wrote on 13 Nov 2016 14:57:
Cord'
I hope you like this one!




By MashaFaygel Tokayer -  June 23, 2016

People can drown in a rip current for the simple reason that they naturally struggle to get back to shore when they realize they’re being drawn forcefully to the ‘deep’.  This is a big mistake because the current is so strong that even an Olympic swimmer might have trouble getting back to shore that way.  Too much energy is expended in the effort, people tire easily and that’s how they drown God forbid.

So what to do?


  1. If caught in a rip current DO NOT FIGHT THE CURRENT.
  2. If you are a good swimmer, find the white foam of the waves and swim parallel to the shore toward the waves.  Once you reach the wave area, either ride a wave or swim to shore.
  3. Another option is to allow the current to take you out to sea.  There is no reason to panic.  The currents only go out about 70 yards.  Once you get pulled beyond the forceful current you can safely and easily swim to the right or left in order to reach an area which brings waves back to shore.
  4. If you don’t feel able to do either of the above, face the shore and raise one arm to call for help.

While I was lounging in my bed yesterday, getting down on myself for doing ‘nothing’ with my life, it occurred to me that I could just accept this as a temporary stage and wait it out.  I realized that there are rip currents in life as well as in the ocean.  We often used the allegory of the waves approaching the shore and returning to sea to represent life’s ups and downs.  So then what is a rip current?  Well, I figure a rip current comes unexpectedly.  It is more forceful than a wave; it doesn’t knock us down, it actually pulls us out to the deep water.

I decided that yesterday I was in a rip current of life.  And the more I struggled with my reality, the more tired and fatigued I became.  Remember rule no. 3 – Do not fight the current. 

I could choose to swim parallel to the shore toward the foam (more familiar ground), I could just let it pull me out until I’m past the danger zone and make my way back to shore, or I can ask for help.

I decided to swim parallel to the shore, ie. I began doing little, yet important things from my bed – like phone my aunt in Florida.  At the end of the day I would have a short yet meaningful list of things accomplished even in my lethargic state.  That in itself brings me to stand on solid ground.  I wasn’t so useless after all.

The thought of letting myself go and get pulled deeper was compelling yet it takes a lot of faith.  We have to know where we’re holding.  And I didn’t feel so bad off that I needed to call someone for help.  Yet, sometimes that’s exactly what we need – a friend who cares.

Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com

Re: The Truth 06 Jun 2021 07:48 #369502

wilnevergiveup wrote on 02 Jun 2021 20:35:
Here is a vort that I wrote a while back that is relevant to "being powerless without the help of G-d" and it's from this weeks parsha so you can say it at the Shabbos table if you'd like.
wilnevergiveup wrote on 13 Aug 2020 20:35:

The question of Hashem stepping in, Chazal tell us that head to head with the Y"H we are goners, we have no chance. Our only option is to rely on Hashem.

Rav Yeruchem Levovitz explains by the story of the meraglim, that even though they were great tzadikim, they were not able to withstand the nisayon because the the Y"H was indeed to great for them to handle on their own. Only Kalev and Yehoshua were able to stand up to the test because they had special siyata dishmaya, Yehoshua because Moshe davened for him and Kalev because he stopped by the kivrei avos.
Without special siyatah dishmaya even the greatest tzadikim just don't match up.

Rav Yeruchem explains that when chazal say "without Hashem's help we would not be able to stand up to the Y"H" it means that our bechira takes place only once we are zoche to siyata d'shmaya but without it, even the greatest of people didn't stand a chance. They lost their bechira.

(Why they lost there bechira is a different story. He explains that the bechira took place when they chose to do bad. They were ba l'tamei and when are ba l'tamei we lose our siyata d'shmaya (poschin lo). Hashem doesn't cause us to sin, rather He just revoves His siyata d'shmaya.)

It seems from here that we "lose" our bechira when we are ba l'tamei and the only way to get our free will back is through tefillah as was the case by Kalev and Yehoshua.

This vort from Rav Yeruchum was in this weeks newsletter and I didn't get any credit  . You saw it here first, just saying.

But seriously, something just clicked. Sometimes we daven and cry our hearts out to Hashem to give us siyatah dishmaya. Sometimes, that is indeed what is needed and possibly every time, but sometimes it's something else entirely. Sometimes the siyatah dishmaya comes from being a bah l'taher. We just need to show some action. As someone wise here says, "stop hoping and start doing."

We find this concept by kriyas Yam Suf as well. Moshe got up and started davening. Hashem told Moshe "daber el b'nei Yisrael v'yisau." Rashi explains that Hashem was telling Moshe, now is not the time to be ma'arich b'tefillah now is the time for action. "command klal Yisrael and go!

And so, in my life I have to just get up and show Hashem some action!

Hashem wants to see some action! Some physical change! Lets go do something different!
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com
Last Edit: 06 Jun 2021 07:58 by wilnevergiveup.

Re: The Truth 08 Jun 2021 07:00 #369613

Still in a rut but thankfully haven't indulged. It's not easy getting through a rough patch without sex and masturbating but it can be done. They say it's easier in the long run, not sure yet cuz I'm not there yet. I am starting to relate to the "Reset Button" thing, I want to just let loose on my lusting. I did it a week or two ago and it brought so much needed clarity...and pain. But it felt good, the clarity and determination to kill this thing for once and for all. Now I am beginning to think that I can overcome this on my own again. Except that I know that I can't. History proves that. 

I have changed my mindset from "lust being optional" to "Lust being poison." I don't really give a darn if it's optional or not, it's killing me.

I really like the line where Dov says that if Eliyahu hanavi would come and say that due to the challenges of our generation Hashem took away the issur of lusting it wouldn't change anything. 

I really want to be over this, to get on with life and the things that I really want from it. I have zero motivation for anything now besides kicking my lusting. I feel like my life is on a standstill and I cannot figure out how to get back o track. My attitude right now is not to do anything that I am going to regret later.

I am really confused. Things are getting murkier, so strange that the clarity comes with the falling and the murkiness comes after doing really well not lusting. 

I don't feel good about it and probably should, I have been able to look away, stare at the floor, sky, think about other thoughts (and all the while wife not available btw, which may have helped, not sure) no lusting, no fantasizing, no touching, no searching, nothing for at least a week or two now. Sounds hard but really makes things easier. Starve this freakin monster to death. I just want to know when it finally is going to die.

Sorry for this incoherent rambling, it's in order as it appeared. 

My life is manageable at times and at times not. The times that it's manageable, I say "I got, this I don't really need help, I just have to push a little harder." When it's not, I am filled with the feeling that I really need help. Sometimes, before I manage to get help, I can push myself back and think all over again that I can manage on my own. The cycles of life. 

I could do this a few thousand more times and then die and hope that this was the life I was supposed to live but it sure is a life of Hell. 

Just some raw feelings from a friend in pain.
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com

Re: The Truth 08 Jun 2021 11:25 #369619

Oh dem peanuts smell so good
O just one look I probably could
Gotta keep the guard I know I should
Cuz too close I'll be in the hospital

When goin through stressful times

I want my old life back in a dime
It was so easy to relieve
Though it really is just a deceive

Now the clarity is starting to fade 
In the swamp of murkiness I am starting to wade
Give in at the first sign of a fight?
Not going to give up, no not tonight. 

All I want is to live the life of the norm

The demons keep making a storm
To enjoy simple things like good weather
Not to have lustful joys my only pleasures
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com
Last Edit: 08 Jun 2021 12:01 by wilnevergiveup.

Re: The Truth 08 Jun 2021 13:07 #369622

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wilnevergiveup wrote on 08 Jun 2021 07:00:
Still in a rut but thankfully haven't indulged. It's not easy getting through a rough patch without sex and masturbating but it can be done. They say it's easier in the long run, not sure yet cuz I'm not there yet. I am starting to relate to the "Reset Button" thing, I want to just let loose on my lusting. I did it a week or two ago and it brought so much needed clarity...and pain. But it felt good, the clarity and determination to kill this thing for once and for all. Now I am beginning to think that I can overcome this on my own again. Except that I know that I can't. History proves that. 

I have changed my mindset from "lust being optional" to "Lust being poison." I don't really give a darn if it's optional or not, it's killing me.

I really like the line where Dov says that if Eliyahu hanavi would come and say that due to the challenges of our generation Hashem took away the issur of lusting it wouldn't change anything. 

I really want to be over this, to get on with life and the things that I really want from it. I have zero motivation for anything now besides kicking my lusting. I feel like my life is on a standstill and I cannot figure out how to get back o track. My attitude right now is not to do anything that I am going to regret later.

I am really confused. Things are getting murkier, so strange that the clarity comes with the falling and the murkiness comes after doing really well not lusting. 

I don't feel good about it and probably should, I have been able to look away, stare at the floor, sky, think about other thoughts (and all the while wife not available btw, which may have helped, not sure) no lusting, no fantasizing, no touching, no searching, nothing for at least a week or two now. Sounds hard but really makes things easier. Starve this freakin monster to death. I just want to know when it finally is going to die.

Sorry for this incoherent rambling, it's in order as it appeared. 

My life is manageable at times and at times not. The times that it's manageable, I say "I got, this I don't really need help, I just have to push a little harder." When it's not, I am filled with the feeling that I really need help. Sometimes, before I manage to get help, I can push myself back and think all over again that I can manage on my own. The cycles of life. 

I could do this a few thousand more times and then die and hope that this was the life I was supposed to live but it sure is a life of Hell. 

Just some raw feelings from a friend in pain.

Wow! I have had many “rambling thoughts” similar to yours. I too wish the monster would be dead already after holding back so long... but it’s still very much alive. I feel at times that I’m starving and depriving myself from the illicit pleasures I can easily indulge in. Like you i try and tell myself I don’t want to do something I will later regret. Not because of any life altering catastrophes or anything just because I know that tomorrow I will try again to
be clean and it will be so much harder if I have more neurotransmitters that need to be rewired. As hard as it is for me to stay clean I have found for myself  it’s so much harder to get clean. I hate the toughest battles so I’d rather stick with the easier struggle....not that it’s a walk in the park!
k9

Re: The Truth 08 Jun 2021 13:29 #369623

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wilnevergiveup wrote on 08 Jun 2021 11:25:
Oh dem peanuts smell so good
O just one look I probably could
Gotta keep the guard I know I should
Cuz too close I'll be in the hospital

When goin through stressful times

I want my old life back in a dime
It was so easy to relieve
Though it really is just a deceive

Now the clarity is starting to fade 
In the swamp of murkiness I am starting to wade
Give in at the first sign of a fight?
Not going to give up, no not tonight. 

All I want is to live the life of the norm

The demons keep making a storm
To enjoy simple things like good weather
Not to have lustful joys my only pleasures

Beautiful and heartfelt!
Aka -  Mischadeish075

Re: The Truth 08 Jun 2021 13:56 #369625

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wilnevergiveup wrote on 08 Jun 2021 07:00:
Still in a rut but thankfully haven't indulged. It's not easy getting through a rough patch without sex and masturbating but it can be done. They say it's easier in the long run, not sure yet cuz I'm not there yet. I am starting to relate to the "Reset Button" thing, I want to just let loose on my lusting. I did it a week or two ago and it brought so much needed clarity...and pain. But it felt good, the clarity and determination to kill this thing for once and for all. Now I am beginning to think that I can overcome this on my own again. Except that I know that I can't. History proves that. 

I have changed my mindset from "lust being optional" to "Lust being poison." I don't really give a darn if it's optional or not, it's killing me.

I really like the line where Dov says that if Eliyahu hanavi would come and say that due to the challenges of our generation Hashem took away the issur of lusting it wouldn't change anything. 

I really want to be over this, to get on with life and the things that I really want from it. I have zero motivation for anything now besides kicking my lusting. I feel like my life is on a standstill and I cannot figure out how to get back o track. My attitude right now is not to do anything that I am going to regret later.

I am really confused. Things are getting murkier, so strange that the clarity comes with the falling and the murkiness comes after doing really well not lusting. 

I don't feel good about it and probably should, I have been able to look away, stare at the floor, sky, think about other thoughts (and all the while wife not available btw, which may have helped, not sure) no lusting, no fantasizing, no touching, no searching, nothing for at least a week or two now. Sounds hard but really makes things easier. Starve this freakin monster to death. I just want to know when it finally is going to die.

Sorry for this incoherent rambling, it's in order as it appeared. 

My life is manageable at times and at times not. The times that it's manageable, I say "I got, this I don't really need help, I just have to push a little harder." When it's not, I am filled with the feeling that I really need help. Sometimes, before I manage to get help, I can push myself back and think all over again that I can manage on my own. The cycles of life. 

I could do this a few thousand more times and then die and hope that this was the life I was supposed to live but it sure is a life of Hell. 

Just some raw feelings from a friend in pain.

Can relate to alot of what you wrote. Thanks for articulating those raw feelings.
btw how was your shmues with your rosh yeshiveh?

Re: The Truth 08 Jun 2021 21:10 #369652

Sapy wrote on 08 Jun 2021 13:56:

wilnevergiveup wrote on 08 Jun 2021 07:00:
Still in a rut but thankfully haven't indulged. It's not easy getting through a rough patch without sex and masturbating but it can be done. They say it's easier in the long run, not sure yet cuz I'm not there yet. I am starting to relate to the "Reset Button" thing, I want to just let loose on my lusting. I did it a week or two ago and it brought so much needed clarity...and pain. But it felt good, the clarity and determination to kill this thing for once and for all. Now I am beginning to think that I can overcome this on my own again. Except that I know that I can't. History proves that. 

I have changed my mindset from "lust being optional" to "Lust being poison." I don't really give a darn if it's optional or not, it's killing me.

I really like the line where Dov says that if Eliyahu hanavi would come and say that due to the challenges of our generation Hashem took away the issur of lusting it wouldn't change anything. 

I really want to be over this, to get on with life and the things that I really want from it. I have zero motivation for anything now besides kicking my lusting. I feel like my life is on a standstill and I cannot figure out how to get back o track. My attitude right now is not to do anything that I am going to regret later.

I am really confused. Things are getting murkier, so strange that the clarity comes with the falling and the murkiness comes after doing really well not lusting. 

I don't feel good about it and probably should, I have been able to look away, stare at the floor, sky, think about other thoughts (and all the while wife not available btw, which may have helped, not sure) no lusting, no fantasizing, no touching, no searching, nothing for at least a week or two now. Sounds hard but really makes things easier. Starve this freakin monster to death. I just want to know when it finally is going to die.

Sorry for this incoherent rambling, it's in order as it appeared. 

My life is manageable at times and at times not. The times that it's manageable, I say "I got, this I don't really need help, I just have to push a little harder." When it's not, I am filled with the feeling that I really need help. Sometimes, before I manage to get help, I can push myself back and think all over again that I can manage on my own. The cycles of life. 

I could do this a few thousand more times and then die and hope that this was the life I was supposed to live but it sure is a life of Hell. 

Just some raw feelings from a friend in pain.

Can relate to alot of what you wrote. Thanks for articulating those raw feelings.
btw how was your shmues with your rosh yeshiveh?

Hasn't happened yet, he has not had time yet.

I have plans to see someone else later this week. I will let you know.
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com

Re: The Truth 08 Jun 2021 22:31 #369656

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Just wanna say, I saw you posted lately that your a perfectionist.
for me really working on my perfectionism was a game changer. I'm a work in progress, but bh I started living and stopped running away from myself. 
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