If it's too much for you (i.e. any m*****), I think SA will respect that.

If we try to stop a bad behavior and can't, it is an addiction. It doesn't matter whether it's excessive or not.




SITUK,

It is for this very reason that Rabbi Twerski suggests that those on our network try first the 12-Step phone groups BEFORE joining live SA groups. These phone groups are anonymous, with only frum yidden, and include a Torahdik approach to the 12-Steps as well...

See "Tools" > "Phone Conferences" on www.guardyoureyes.org for the options.

May G-d be with you.

I have had a tough day - I feel ashamed, miserable, very very tired.

Also I have been am very upset today because yesterday - just a few hours after my fall - we got a note homw that our eldest son has been doing badly at school. I really feel that such things are linked - the kitzur talks about the effect zera levatolo has on one's children - and has at least given me even more impetus to improve myself.

Thanks for the tip about the phone call stuff - they look great but would cost me an arm and a leg calling from the UK.

Hey SIUK. Dont dare let the beast get you down like this. Hard day? Yeah! But no need to be ashamed. As long as your trying thats what counts. So smile it all away...........

Struggling in the UK wrote on 08 Dec 2009 22:05:


I highly suggest you get yourself a VOIP line with a US number (i.e. Vonage or the like). It costs about $20 a month in the US and you can then call unlimited, which means you could join as many conferences as you'd like, as well as using to call people you know in America, all for the same price. Look into it and see if it's doable. $20 a month is hardly a large price to pay for your freedom.

Yeah, the VOIP thing is a good idea - if that's not an option, there must be good calling cards in the UK, I can't imagine it would cost more than a few cents a minute with a good calling card.

The yetzer hora likes us to feel dejected. So, if things going wrong in your family can help encourage you to do the right thing, great - but don't let it get you down, because (and you need to remind yourself of this) that's exactly what the y"h wants!

Also, don't make your son's behavior your fault. I'm not an expert, but it seems to me like that could lead to issues. Respect him as his own person - and part of that is dealing with the consequences of his own actions.

And remember - you're fighting a long battle! You've had successes, but no battle goes completely smoothly. You're here for the long haul, and you're winning.

Your issues with your son reminds me of a nice post from someone who called himself "London" on our forum (also from the UK  ). He wrote:

I would like to share with you an amazing experience I just had. My seven year old daughter is going through a difficult time at school at the moment, both socially and academically. This morning, she had a massive tantrum that she is not going to school, refusing to eat breakfast and throwing her bag around. In the car on the way to school, she told me how sad she is that she does not have friends, etc. I was able to sympathize with her and I told her that I will speak to her teachers.

After she left the car, a huge craving to act out swept through me. My daughter is suffering, which is in turn causing me great emotional pain as a father. I am also an addict, which means I am pre-programmed to "medicate myself" with acting out or food, whenever I face difficult situations. However, what my program (SA - 12 steps) has taught me, is that difficult feelings won't kill me. I was able to sit through the craving until it passed, and then I experienced the sadness for my daughter and I cried for the first time in many many months. I also phoned my sponsor and shared with him what had happened, not to get advice, but just to share with another person who understands the way I work. He encouraged me to pray for my daughter and told me, as they say in AA, "this too shall pass".

I am so grateful today for my program that is giving me another choice, to be able to experience difficult situations without acting out. There is no way I can do this on my own, I need other people to constantly to fall on to give me strength and encouragement. Through this, I can accept my situation and daven to Hashem that "His will, not mine, be done today".

Beautiful post Guard. Thanks for sharing. I feel i can relate so much to what this guy wrote.

I can relate to that.

I find crying over my mistakes a help (though painful obviously).

I go to mikvah every day and regularly cry while in the mikvah as I think of what I have done

I'm envious of you - you have a clear recognition of how bad the aveirah is. I hope that, as I improve and distance myself, I'll reach the level that you're already on.

Thank you for reminding me of the true color of reality.

thanks for the confidence boost.

it's amazing how strong the yetzer hora is that despite such awareness, I still slip!!

just getting back to the original point about depression, I wondered if I am alone in this phenomenon:

after a fall, I am incredibly depressed and although all the GYE Handbooks and similar sites suggest getting straight up and trying to move on straight away, that makes me feel even more guilty - as though anything less than total despair would suggest that I don't really care and my teshuva isn't genuine as I evidently don't view this as a biggie.

So rather than trying to get up and be positive, I try as much as possible to be depressed and hurt myself - as I said, I one took a hammer to my iPhone which costs me around $300 to replace. I have kicked and punched walls and hurt my hands and feet.

But I so don't want to just move on because doesn't that show I didn't care - that the aveiro has become 'mutar' to me?

As you probably already know, that's the yetzer hora talking, on several different levels. You have a tremendous awareness of the gravity of the aveirah, and the yetzer hora will gladly try to twist that valuable koach that you have. You can't let him.

I actually saw a piece by R' Yeruchum that reminded me of your situation. In a way, I respect your horror at what you've done, and your desire to smash the object that it was done with. However, R' Yeruchum points out (discussing Yackov going back to retrieve "pachim ktanim," small containers) that for tzdikim, everything they have, even the smallest value, is important and must not be wasted. Not just because of bal tashchis, but more importantly - if Hashem gave you something, that means you have it for a specific purpose, and you're supposed to use it.

Furthermore, smashing your ipod/computer/etc. is an easy out. It strikes me as a way of "undoing" what you did by breaking something in the physical world - imagine if you could affect that same change on your internal world, destroying the things that make you have that compulsion (which is what we're all working on here)! Obviously, the yetzer hora would MUCH prefer a smashed ipod.

You awareness causes you to feel bad. But it should also push you to do whatever it takes to improve - and you KNOW that the best way to do that is to motivate yourself. Unfortunately, we've all gotten used to certain aveiros, and despite our outward horror, it seems that on a deep level, these things HAVE become mutar to us, as much as we detest them. We have to do teshuva, and our personal avodah of teshuva is clear - using the 12 steps, the handbooks, etc. Renewing our energy and starting anew with faith in hashem, and good spirits. What "feels" right, and what "feels" like the type of thing a tzadik would do may, in this case, be very, very wrong. The Yetzer Hora is good at that. To quote a rebbe of mine, "I like to give credit where credit is due. Let's face it - the yetzer hora does a damn good job." Our job is, primarily, to improve, at all costs. That's real avodas hashem, that's real teshuva.

And truthfully, the idea of depression after an aveirah is famous - R' Chaim Shmuelevitz discusses it in the topic of the chet ha'egel, and his basic point is that when we have a yeridah, the depression that follows has the capacity to bring us to totally new depths, far, FAR below the original aveirah.

Don't let that happen - laugh, do something to cheer yourself up, be happy that you have the strength and courage to try again, and to avoid falling again. And remember how great the reward is for not falling for a minute, a day, 2 days...for however long you restrained yourself, you deserve congratulations!

We all expeirenced this phenomenon. What we have to realize is that we are going against our addiction. Not to say that were not doing something wrong. But to realize that its not the real us whos doing all these things. When we feel these things its easier to get up and brush ourselves off and move forward. Forget Teshuva for now. Lets focus on getting past our addiction then well get to teshuvah. But dont forget what youve accomplished so far. So you ost the streak but think of the amount of days you went. Hours. Minutes. Seconds. Every second counts to Hashem whether its continuous or not. Al kol rega v'rega..................

i know you are right.

My problem is that I try to b'simcha but then feel guilty that if am not totally distraught, then it is a clear sign to Hashem that I'm not truly sorry.

I remember learning in Yoma that one who does an aveiro thinking they will do teshuva after when get kapora and this has never left me especially as I have often 'acted out' thinking 'oh I'll go to mikveh tomorrow, I'll say tikkun klali and give extra tzedoko and everything will be OK'.

I know that that mishnah in Yoma is talking about someone who does an aveiro thinking they will do teshuva and then do the aveiro again. Plus if one regrets both the aveiro and the twisted logic about teshuva after then one would get kapora for both aveiros as it were.

But I am now obsessed with going back over my thought processes and trying to work out whether I thought 'oh I'll just teshuva after' and how much I regret it now. Am I truly remorseful? And if I try to be happy is it because I have relieved the sexual frustration and I'm not truly sorry.

So I go round and round in circles chasing my tale and can't get happy. I have had a fairly miserable Shabbos because of it, thinking about nothing else but my aveiros and questioning myself about how miserable I am and my motivation for my actions.

I have reached a stage where I don't want to get an aliyah in shul because I don't feel worthy and am a fraud.

My wife (without knowing the cause) thinks I need some medication. I don't know.

gut voch and a freilichin and lichtiger chanukah to all