Guys, guys, guys.

Really.  Let's get some perspective here.  Let's think objectively about what's going on here.

1.  Harry's wife.

Seriously.  We are on this board because we have problems.  Some of us looked at porn.  Some of us looked at women.  Some of us masturbate. Some of us might even have had affairs.  Not easy but I've said it.  We all know where we come from and where we are.

Now imagine we were alcoholics.  Imagine this was AA.  Do you think that we would be writing pages and pages of our favourite cocktail recipes?  Do you think we'd be thinking about a cold glass of beer, with water dripping down the outside.  Do you think we'd be complaining about supermarkets selling cut price liquor, how easy it is to get a drink, why it is unfair that people all around us can drink but we can't.  No.  You'd not be shteiging in beer, whiskey and wine.  You would be trying to get better, trying to focus on your recovery.

Harry's wife is distracting us from the true point of this board.  Self healing.  Self improvement.  If you spend your time writing about models, what are you thinking about?  This is entirely the work of the yetzer horo.  It is a WASTE OF TIME.  Please close it down forever.

2.  HARRY'S SON

I won't repeat why we are here.

Now, let's think about those alcoholics.  When they are recovered, maybe, just maybe, then they can tell people about why they shouldn't drink.  But when they are in the middle of their addiction, when they still want a drink, do you think that they will be convincing?  Do you think that it is good for them to go to a high school and teach the boys about the dangers of drinking?

Ask your Rov. Ask your masgiach, your maspiah, your mother to give you a crib sheet on what to say. 

But us?  We can't even stop ourselves.  Let's stop this narishkeit and get on with the healing.

You're right. I think we should start a thread called just plain "HARRY".

INH,

I think you should make a poll on this.

Count me in as respectfully disagreeing to just about everything you said.

guardureyes wrote on 16 Oct 2009 00:05:


or maybe....
Harry's levaya?

10 jews 11 opinions.

I think the idea with harry's son, is that some (many?) of us fell into this in part because we did not have the right hadracha at the right time.
And since we care and are  responsible for the chinuch of our kids, its on our minds....
how can we relay to them the right attitude in a safe way.

HW (gosh, it makes me think of homework.... even after all these years!!! :D) , your point may be valid though... we may not be the right people to figure this one out... People tend to project their own problems onto others, who may not have that tendency at all.... :'(

kutan

Harry's Levaya would be a great Thread.

The conversation will be about "What Will They Say About Harry At His Levaya?"

That's a questions we all have to ask ourselves.

What do we want to be known as when we pass on?

No one will be talking about how many hours we put into a days work.

No one will be talking about how good looking we were.

No one will be talking about our materialistic doings or at least that's not what we would like people to be talking about.

Like Reb Dovid Orlovsky says in one of his speeches "even Vinny the mobster at his funeral you want hear people saying, Hey you know, Vinny, He was a great Killer, he killed so many people! And how! Fugedaboutit!

No! They will say, Vinny, He loved his mother! He would do anything for his mother! Lol

So L'Havdel we need to work on ourselves before we hit mid life crisis or at least when we hit mid life crisis realizing we lived an empty life, and get our act together not that they should have what to say when we pass on but we should have something to show for when we do.

Hachaim Lomus, V'Hamisim Lichyos.

So Harry's Levaya aint that bad idea, but don't forget his wife or at least his Son are still very much alive.

kutan shel hachabura wrote on 16 Oct 2009 03:51:


This is a point that really hits home. If someone would have told me when I was younger that I don't have to be ashamed to ask for help in this area I don't think I would be here now. If someone would have told me that all boys have raging hormones I might not be here now. If someone would have told me that many good boy fall many times in this area I might not be here now. If someone would have given me practical advice in this area years ago I might not be here now.

I could go on but I think I made my point. Please talk about this with your sons. The Chafizt Chaim was once talking with other Gedolim about pressing communal issues and one of the other Gedoilim said that one can only focus on correcting others after they have reached perfection in that area. The Chafaizt Chaim said that when someone need a drink you bring him clean water but when there is a fire even the dirtiest water is brought as fast as you can get it there. Today we have a fire in Klal Yisroel, he said, so anyone that can help should. My friends today we have a forest fire raging on every street corner, in every home, in every shul. There is now refugee from WiFi, even the the Bais Medresh. We need even the dirtiest water in the world, even the most infected. Please bring the message to who ever will give you the time of day.

I agree with what you are saying about the need to educate our children.  I agree that it should be us.  We are the parents.  We have the responsibility and can be mechanech with ahava and (if we know our kids) with the right level of mussar too.  However, when it comes to the question of what to say, what boundaries to put up etc, I don't think that we are the one's to make the suggestions.

Why not.

First - unless we are in the position whereby we are a recovered addict I think it is going to be hard for us to know where to set them.  We might suggest too much or too little.  It takes someone healthy to look at things in the round.  Again, this is slightly dependant on minghag/community, but do we know how to be lenient?  Do we know when to let kids make their own decisions.  I think my point relates more to teenagers than little kids, but sometimes pushing a teenager too hard produces the wrong result.  Chas vesholom - I am not suggesting give them a mag and let them come to their own conclusions (the old trick of give someone enough rope and they will hang themselves).  But it is often a question of attitude and presentation.  Give some teenagers a directive "don't cross that line" is often a guarantee that they will. 

As I say, the approach is very much a question of your community (for example are movies OK or not?  If OK, what rating?).  But still think that it needs someone objective to draw those lines.

Second - There is an inclination for self preservation in all of us.  And when Yankele asks us "is that what you do totty?" what are you going to say.  Better to say that "Reb....teaches us that x, y, z".  Or zeidy told me when I was your age "a, b, c".

I agree that there is a certain merit in the poacher turned groundskeeper approach.  I.e. there is probably a lot of collective knowledge on this board about what not to do.  This is probably quite useful in knowing what protections to place.  E.g. if you let your kids online - you can make experience based decisions about what sites, what fileters etc.  But the general decision as to whether to go online or not shouldn't be ours.  If all of Yankele's friend's have access but he doesn't, you can bet your bottom dollar that when he's round at shmulik's learning, he's also checking voisisneiz or Torah.org.  So if the next time he's in the public library there is a pc, he might go on it and perhaps look at the NY Times.  Next time worse, etc.  My point is that perhaps his Roash Yeshiva would have told you to let him on the home PC whereas you are thinking "I need to protect my little tzadikel from becoming a grub yung like me".


HW

kutan shel hachabura wrote on 16 Oct 2009 03:51:


Isn't it 1 Jew, 2 opinions?

Help Wanted wrote on 15 Oct 2009 23:48:


Perhaps instead of comparing Sa to AA, or Na (narcotics Anon), we should replace those initials with OA (Overeaters Anon) , DA (Debters Anon) etc. AA and NA are the 'black and white' of addictions. The rest, like ours, are gray. 
True, no one discusses cocktail recipes in AA, but they are discussing recipes in OA; low fat, healthy etc.
AA may not, but Debters anon would. And rightfully so.

The only thing I want them to say at my levaya is, "hey look, he's moving!"

;D

Boorich Dayun Hu'emes... Di levaya fun di chusheve rebetzin, ayshes Herry, ulehu hashulem, gayet arois haint fun dem gooy'en bays medresh....


Boorich Dayun Hu'emes... Di levaya fun di chusheve rebetzin, ayshes Herry, ulehu hashulem, gayet arois haint fun dem gooy'en bays medresh....

Boorich Dayun Hu'emes... Di levaya fun di chusheve rebetzin, ayshes Herry, ulehu hashulem, gayet arois haint fun dem gooy'en bays medresh....

Boorich Dayun Hu'emes... Di levaya fun di chusheve rebetzin, ayshes Herry, ulehu hashulem, gayet arois haint fun dem gooy'en bays medresh....

Boorich Dayun Hu'emes... Di levaya fun di chusheve rebetzin, ayshes Herry, ulehu hashulem, gayet arois haint fun dem gooy'en bays medresh....

Boorich Dayun Hu'emes... Di levaya fun di chusheve rebetzin, ayshes Herry, ulehu hashulem, gayet arois haint fun dem gooy'en bays medresh....

Boorich Dayun Hu'emes... Di levaya fun di chusheve rebetzin, ayshes Herry, ulehu hashulem, gayet arois haint fun dem gooy'en bays medresh....


;D ;D ;D

ya gotta live in bp to get it.

KUTAN HARRY WIFE IS LIVE AND KICKIN

HARYYS WIFE IS LIVE AND KICKIN

HARRYS WIFE IS LIVE AND KICKIN

BOOOOORICH MICHAYE MAYSIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHE IS WHERE EVER YOU ARE

TRY ONE LITTLE "EITZAH"

I-IG-IGN-IGNO-IGGGGNORRRRE HER!!!

Hilariouis as usual Reb Guard!

I don't want anyone to say anything at my Levaya if & when.

The point is what will they say in Beis Din She'll Malloh

Um,
ignore
WHO?

;D