I think I need a thread where I can post about myself and organize my thoughts. I hope that the act of revealing my feelings can help me control them. I didn't think "I'm new" was a very good title, so here is the new one.

This morning I thought about my new entry on to this forum. How would it help me? I could simply lie my way out of my guilt, couldn't I?
I concluded that if I posted honestly, and got into the habit of doing so, I wouldn't lie. My entire purpose in joining this forum was to have a place where I could be honest, and finally reveal the bits of my life that I couldn't tell anyone.

Even as I write this, even the anticipation of finally telling the truth to real people, takes weight off my shoulders.

My first thread detailed how I joined the forum, and how I felt. This is my real physical story.

I was a very curious child. I'm still curious. I can't stand not knowing. When I hit 13, I became curious about biology. I knew that there were things I shouldn't know, but the concept of "shouldn't know" is even now a difficult one for me. If something was hidden I had to find it. I looked up what I wanted to know in dictionaries, textbooks, medical websites. Then, when my curiosity was satisfied, something else took over, posing as curiosity. None of these things had photos, just descriptions. Wouldn't I understand what I was looking for better if I had photos, or videos? I knew I shouldn't, that it was wrong, but... how could it be wrong?

Well, I understood it, then, intellectually. Naturally I wanted to understand it physically. Curiosity, right? It wasn't.

There were no longer any revelations, just sin; I had lost control. I began my fight a few months later, and accumulated a legacy of failed battles for 4 years.

I am now 17. I know I have to beat it now, or it will only get worse. I know it's time to make a real commitment to winning, and I know that I can't push it off.

My y"h tells me that I'm young, and that I can afford a few more years of foolishness. I tell him that I can't. If everyone's jumping off buildings, should I follow them? No. They can walk with broken legs their whole lives. I have to bandage what wounds I have and heal.

That's my story.

welcome aboard...i commend you for starting at 17...you cannot possibly imagine what a tremendous favor you just did to 32 year old NotAlone...bro, youre not alone because we're all very, very different here (some of us more different than others) but we've all been where youve been and we're all fighting this war together....curiosity...oh, hows that little word has driven me to the darkest hells of insanity and back...(ok, maybe not all the way back)...i know how you suffer...anyway, im glad youre out of the shell because we need every foot soldier here and despite what you may have heard, Gd did not yet lose this war...we're a band of fighters that are changing reality one second at a time...good luck...

keep fighting
ratm

we can all relate very well to the curiosity monster...
it was natural to start out with but we let it take over.
don't worry, you're at the right place! you're gonna fit right in.
you already do! ;D
did you check out the handbooks and sign up for the emails yet?

Not Alone Welcome

I admire you very much for battling this struggle even though everybody in this world we live in says a 17 year old is ok to be sexually active and that it's healthy.
At 17,I was very sexually active and it was one of the worst years of my life.
It's not just about fighting it now or later.
The truth is that this stupid addiction prevents us from truly living!
And who wants to delay life?
Let us step out of the darkness together
and go out into the sun.
I am also young.
We have our whole life ahead of us.
Let us start living
All the best my tzaddik
-uri

r AT m: I wish I could talk to my older self. Where are those plans for a time machine?
I heard once that the lulav is the rifle and the esrog the hand grenade of the army of G-d. I hope the chag of Succot will give me the strength to riddle my y"h with holes.

letakain: Yes, I have signed up for the email, and I've had a look at the handbooks, but I think what will help me the most is simply posting what I feel on this forum. My problem lies in the fact that I've been able to conceal what I've been doing and the guilt I feel, and now that I can talk about it, I think I can overcome it.

Uri: I've read a lot of your posts, and I feel with you. This addiction has wasted so much of my precious time that I feel I have to finally get rid of it, and move on with my life that stopped at 13.


On another note, I have a question: I wish to join the 90 days board, but I don't know from when to count. I've been clean since the 9 days (except 3 or 4 slips, no falls). Should I count from then or from when I joined GUE and made a new beginning?

Hi, I think you start counting from when you are clean. not from when you joined the forum.

Love and prayers for your continued success

Noorah

Noorah BAmram wrote on 07 Oct 2009 03:36:


Absolutely - every clean day counts!

I too echo the sentiment that 17 is such a wonderful age to begin working on this problem!  Compare it to saving for retirement.  Starting early is a huge advantage.  Of course, even if someone starts saving in his late 50's, that's far better than not saving at all.

Of course the analogy is not exact, because effective Teshuva can be done at any age.  But starting early will, b'Ezras Hashem, help you in your marriage, with raising children, with giving you more time to learn, and in countless other ways.

Welcome N.A.

Yes posting is very important but, reading the hand books & Emails are anytime as important if not more important.

Some of the reasons is that you have to know the Y"H's tactics in order to know what to watch out from & also you might have to change the outlook on life & this addiction in order to succeed long term.

Interestingly, I signed up for the emails yesterday and I still haven't received any. I also tried to sign up for the chart, but I haven't received a confirmation yet. I wonder if I put in my address right....

Today the y"h is going back to his old game.

"What's wrong with what you're doing? You're not married, you're not wasting anything."
"It's not allowed, and besides, I'm addicted."
"Of course it's allowed! Onan was married; you're not. Aww, come on, you're not addicted. You're 17! You're having natural reactions! It'll go away."
"No it won't, not as far as I can tell."
"Of course it will. It's just a pastime. You're bored anyway."
"Bored or not, I won't do it. Besides, what would the people on GUE think if I dropped out now?"
"Hah, like they can answer my questions!"
"Betcha they can!"

So I'm here. I need proofs that m* and p* is assur to unmarried men (proofs from tanach, preferably, my y"h doesn't truck with Rabonim, he's quite the sceptic.), and that it's going to ruin me. I can't think of any solid examples to blast him with on my own. I think I've convinced him to at least wait for some replies.

Can anyone help with some inspiration please?

I actually had a back and forth with Kedusha about this.
see, here: rehab-my-site.com/guardureyes/forum/index.php?topic=1022.0

Thank you, rATm. Reading that has helped.

Nevertheless, the inner dialog continues:

"Well, that clears everything up! Gotcha now!"
"Really, well, as I (the great talmid chocham when it comes to heterim) can see, there's no actual problem unless it consumes you, and makes you tamei. You're stronger than that! You just want a break."
"No I don't. You want to take over me. It's happened before."
"Really? Do you remember it? Do you honestly remember that disgusting feeling?"
"Yes... it was there."
"But do you remember the actual feeling?"
"No... but I know that I felt disgusting?"
"It wasn't really that bad. Besides, you only felt disgusting because you thought it was wrong. It's not really wrong though. Not in the Torah, right? Just a bunch of Rabbis!"
"Well, EVERY Rabbi since the Amoraim."
"Every Rabbi since the Amoraim could be mistaken. Every religious culture has developed some sort of stigma in sexual activity. Why should the Jews be any different?"
"Because our Rabbis have Divine Guidance."
"Do they? Who told you that? More Rabbis? What do you expect them to say?"
"Well, you accept that the Torah is true?"
"Sure, sure, pretty undeniable."
"Well then, it obviously is written to be explained: shchita is not described, the laws of Sabbath are not described. The oral tradition is obviously valid because the Torah is nothing without it."
"I guess you're making a point. But that doesn't mean that the Rabbis of the Talmud did not try to add in extras that are not needed. Look at all the Talmudic quack medicine."
"It's not quack medicine! It worked then!"
"Really, who told you that, Rabbis? No culture of that time was immune to quack medicine. Or sexual superstitions."
"Ugh... Well, maybe that's not right then. But nothing proves that their statements about acting out are wrong."
"So you're not sure!"
"I guess not."
"Gotcha."

So I'm left to habit, which now, after 6 weeks of self-control, is thankfully on the good side.
Unfortunately, the lack of surety is an enormous drag... Writing down the excuse and seeing it's weakness has kind of helped, but I don't know for how long. Can someone win the argument for me conclusively?

There is no denying that the scriptual connection is weak, im not going to write for you a passuk that does not exist......but let me be clear: you cannot be any sort of jew so long as you lust and having just a small nibble leads you down a path that is impossible to climb out of...it takes one moron to drop a stone down a well and 50 architects to get it back out...dont be a moron and dont throw the stone down the well...i tell ya' ive had exactly your mentality to the T....let me speak to you from experience...ive gone into the deepest and darkest hells and only by pure luck fell tuchus-backwards here....while i hope to salvage my life, i am still haunted by my past and will always be...do not fool yourself...stop this addiction now because there may never be a later...

Thank you so much!
That was pretty much what I needed to hear, and it showed me my problem.

My final dialog:

"Back again, I see."
"That's my job."
"Well, here's a post from which I see what will become of me if I listen to you."
"Meh, you trust him? You're better. You can control yourself. You won't let it take over you. You can have it just this once."
"That's my problem, yetzer. I don't trust. Well, I'm trusting now. He is as close to a time machine to speak to my older self as I'll get. I have to trust him, I have to trust my parents, I have to trust my Rabbonim. I don't know how fast I'll manage that, but I'll start here. It's illogical to be a sceptic in this situation. I'm not going to test if the lava will REALLY burn my leg off: I'd be losing my leg. "This once" is the time I'll give up, and the next one too, for the sake of my future. And you can't change my mind."
"I'll be back."
"And I'll just walk away from you."

Thank you for the insight and the warning rATm. I hope I won't forget this when my next battle comes. At least I won this this one  .

NotAlone wrote on 07 Oct 2009 17:46:


Don't fall for this one.  If you believe that Chazal were not infallible in their understanding of medicine and science, you're in very good company (Rav Sherira Gaon, Rambam, Rav Avraham ben HaRambam, Rav Shimshon Raphael Hirsch, and many other Rishonim and Achronim).  But in areas of Halacha, Chazal's word is final, and even the Ribbono Shel Olam can't overrule them ("Lo BaShamayim Hee").

As for the y'h, notice how Frum he becomes once you've done the Aveira, telling you what a Sheigitz you are, etc.  So don't believe a word he says before he's gotten you to fall.

There is no question that masturbation is forbidden; See Niddah 13a and 13b; see also Shulchan Aruch Even HaEzer 23.  

Keep two other things in mind.  You're far better off if you avoid these behaviors to maintain your emotional equilibrium and so forth, not for Frum reasons.

Also, the authority of Chazal and Halacha is a given on the GYE forum.  You can tell the y'h that you won't even consider listening to him if he tries to call these into question.