Love this thread, I struggle with davinging so much all the more so after a a fall or when feeling down.

REB aVIGDOR MILLER SAID IF YOUCAN'T DAVEN FOR REAL

FAKE IT!!

BUT DAVEN

i don't get it. is this whether we should, or whether we do?
because of course we should. yeah, it's majorly hard. and i have to admit that i skipped davening at least twice after my past few falls. and when i did daven, there wasn't much kavana at all.
i always felt like Hashem might be better off without my extremely fake tefillos. now i think a little differently, and i realize (intellectually at least) that my teffillos are more for me than for Him. so i try hard to focus. and at the very least to say thank you for GYE in modim

Another thought: a person who has fallen can Daven with a broken heart, and without a shred of arrogance, something that is dear to the Ribbono Shel Olam.

THE HEILIGEH BARDICHEVER DISCUSEES THIS WITH A MASHAL

A KING HAS MANY SUBJECTS

HIS ARMY AND STAFF AND NOBLES

ALL THE WAY DOWN TO SIMPLE PEASANTS

WHEN THE KING HEARS THE PRAISE OF THE NOBLES AND HIS STAFF HE IS NOT SO EXCITED

BUT WHEN HE HEARS THE PRAISE OF THE PEASANTS

THEN HE SAYS MY SUBJECTS LOVE ME

This thread is awesome!!!!
Worth to mention: according to the Nesivos Shalom parshas Vayeilach(Vonochi astir panai) the feeling of disconnect that comes after a fall is not  secondary or incidental to the YH, rather this disconnect was his main goal all the time!!!
and to the contrary the "act" was only  of secondary importance!!

Here's my 2 cents:

First of all, Kedusha, thank you so much for starting this thread.

Second of all, it's really great that people are posting their honest feelings here. I don't believe that it's possible to recover without resolving this issue.

The posuk says (ולא אתי קראת יעקב כי יגעת בי ישראל (ישעיה מ'ג כ'ב  If Avodas Hashem makes you feel drained, then it's not Hashem that you're serving. If you have trouble davening then it would help to understand Who you're davening to.

HASHEM IS GOOD AND LOVING AND HE NEVER CHANGES! HE DOESN'T HAVE MOODS AND YOU CAN'T GET ON HIS BAD SIDE, BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE A BAD SIDE! Yes there's judgement which is for our ultimate good. BUT YOU CAN'T TICK HASHEM OFF OR BLOW HIS FUSE!

The posuk says האדם יראה לעניים וד' יראה ללבב Hashem sees your heart -your will, not just your actions. EVEN TO THE MERE MORTALS ON THIS FORUM, IT'S BLATANTLY OBVIOUS THAT EVERY PERSON THAT'S POSTING THEIR STRUGGLES IS A TZADIK THAT WANTS TO DO RATZON HASHEM!

BUT SOMEHOW THE Y'H TRIES TO CONVINCE US THAT HASHEM DOESN'T GET IT! AND/OR HE TRIES TO CONVINCE US THAT WE ARE REALLY BAD. IF YOU ASK HIM WHY IN THE WOLRD YOU ARE INVESTING SUPER-HUMAN EFFORT TO BRAKE FREE IF IN FACT YOU'RE BAD, HE ANSWERS "DON'T CONFUSE ME WITH THE FACTS"

RABOISAI, ENOUGH OF THIS!!! IT'S TIME TO RECOGNIZE THE PLAIN TRUTH! HASHEM IS GOOD AND SO ARE YOU! HE IS ALWAYS WITH YOU NO MATTER WHAT! HE LOVES TO HEAR YOUR BEAUTIFUL VOICE, ALWAYS! IF YOU SEE THAT YOU WERE TO WEAK AND THE Y'H MANAGED TO TRIP YOU UP, THAT'S THE TIME MORE THAN EVER TO SCREAM YOUR HEART OUT "TATTEH SAVE ME, I'M DROWNING, HELP!!!" THAT'S THE TIME MORE THAN EVER TO REAFFIRM YOUR ALLEIGANCE TO HASHEM AND TO TELL HIM AND YOURSELF "YES, I FELL BUT IT'S NOT ME AND I WON'T LET IT BECOME ME!!!"

ON ROSH HASHANA WE ARE ALL GOING TO STAND IN FRONT OF HASHEM. LET'S MAKE SURE WE KNOW THAT IT'S HASHEM WE'RE BEING JUDGED BY AND SOME UNSYMPATHETIC MONSTER CHAS VESHOLOM!

K'SIVA VACHASIMA TOVA!  

wow! thank you battleworn!
i think i'm going to print that out and keep it with my GYE ammunition!


i'm gonna need a new hiding spot- this one's too small!

Look at the power of the y"h. He gets us to fall. He gets us to feel depressed. He gets us not to daven.

At this moment, shouldn't we naturally call out to Hashem in tears? At this moment, don't we feel as if we have been tricked once again, and simply can't take it anymore? At this moment, don't we feel like never ever acting out again? At this moment, why aren't we calling out to Hashem??

We have no idea of the power of tefilla but obviously the y"h does. Hashem does not need our prayers. Never the less for some crazy reason, the creator of the universe, master over all, asks us to call upon Him!! And even stranger, He listens!!!

Bardichev mentioned the story of dovid hamelech. I want to bring down the story of a fellow addict named Elazar ben Dordia who visited every harlot in the world. Upon hearing of one in a distant land across the ocean, he was compelled to visit her. He took a bag of coins, boarded a boat and made the long and dangerous journey. During his visit, she burped and said to him "as this breath will never return to its place so will you never be received in teshuva".

Elazar ben Dordia ran out and sat between two mountains and requested that they ask for mercy on his behalf. They replied, "how can we plead for your mercy when we ourselves are in need of mercy?" He then asked the heavens and earth, the sun and the moon and the stars to plead for him, but they all replied the same.

Finally, Elazar ben Dordia exclaimed, "The matter of returning depends on me alone!" and cried aloud until his soul departed. A bas kol then declared, "Rabbi Elazar ben Dordia is destined for life in the World to Come.." On this Rebbi Yehuda HaNasi wept and said "One may acquire eternal life in many years, and another may acquire eternal life in one moment."

Like all of us, Elazar ben Dordia did not want to face his Creator. He pleaded to the mountains, sun, moon and stars. Eventually he realized only Hashem could help him. So for a few moments he cried out to Hashem, and Hashem heard, accepted and answered his prayers. He returned to his Creator. And to get this into our thick skulls a bas kol from heaven confirmed it to us.

Rabosai, what did R' Elazar ben Dordia do? In the moment, he felt bad, real bad. In the moment, he cried out to Hashem, and Hashem heard. Hashem listened to a man whose life was dedicated to this sin. Hashem heard the plea of a man who just traveled weeks with out stop across the globe for his next sin. And because in the moment Elazar ben Dordia cried out to Hashem he bacme R' Elazar ben Dordia and aquired Olam Haba. Truly amazing!!!

Let's take this a step further. As an addict how many times have we tried to stop??? How many times have we said never again and gone back??? True is takes an effort to start, to cry out and say never again, but compared to actually stopping.... you can't even begin to compare the two. Staying clean and changing our ways, that is the real challenge.

I dare to say how Elazar ben Dordia would have fared, but he died before he had the chance. He was an addict in the worse sense. Was he capable of living sober? Let the fact that Hashem took his soul after his moment shed light on that. Never the less, this addict, who lived his life in sin, and perhaps beyond change, IN THE MOMENT, and perhaps his only moment, called out to return to Hashem. And Hashem listened, heard and accepted his teshuva!!

Hashem knows we are not perfect. We are not expected to be perfect. He created the y"h and gave us our desires.  He knows man and how man behaves. And regardless of our bahavior He asks for our prayers.

The next time we are in the moment, use it!!!! The power of tefilla is beyond words!!! The power of tefilla from a broken heart goes beyond the beyond!!! Not even a lifetime of sin can block its path, just ask Rabbi Elazer ben Dordai. Don't let the y"h tell you otherwise. He's a liar. The last thing he wants you to do is waste the moment. The moment you have to cry out to Hashem from the bottom of your heart to return to Him!

Final thought: Our moments do not only happen after a fall. They can come to us at any time. I experienced one this morning during davening thinking about the above and the power of tefilla. Hashem wants our tefillos. When we are broken inside, that is our time to aquire eternal life, no matter what we may have just did!!

How about looking at teffilah as a way to praise G-d and be close to Him, instead of thinking "give me".

Like Reb Guard is saying. Look at the language of the brochos. The begining may be our request but that is not how they end.  "Healer of a israel" "the giver of knowledge" "the one who desires teshuva" "the One who listens to prayer"

As a wise man once said: "Anyone who doesn't Daven, hasn't got a prayer!"  :D

guard,

i apologize for keeping your censorship department on overtime doing double shifts...

ratm

Hey, who erased the post? I only edited it... I didn't erase it. Was that you RATM? I had nothing against the post, I just edited out some of the "rage" if you know what I mean 

Rage AT Machine wrote on 14 Sep 2009 20:03:

Yeah, I think we can agree that there are two different davening experiences we yidden have, that reflect two needs we have:
1- Talking to my G-d because I, a yid, recognize that I need to have and cultivate my own relationship with Him (rachamim ninhu, like the avos did),
and
2- Avodah; an absolute responsibility, as a human being, to recognize G-d, just to be in reality because He's really here and in charge (neged korbanos).

Our chachamim created a davening formula for us to use three times a day that reflects both aspects in many ways. But by nature, a formula does not seem at all personal. It takes work to get it to fulfill need #1, and need #2 is not very appealing when we feel unworthy. But it's really more than just "unappealing". It feels disingenuous and really wrong. It is truly hypocritical to repeatedly and dependably act against His will and then say, in essence, "I really hope everybody does your Will. It's really great". And it may actually be healthy that it should feel that way to us. Even Aharon hakohen had that feeling, it seems (al pi p'shat), though he was instructed not to give-in to it, as some here have nicely pointed out.

It seems plain that when a sexaholic, lustaholic (whatever), acts out his lust he really needs to reach out, and knows it. Most of us feel this need, albeit after a short but damaging period of isolation. I benefit from talking to my Eternal best friend more than ever when I act in a way that I'm not pleased with. But I believe that the kind of tefilla I need then is not necessarily what chazal where intending the thrice daily tefillah to fulfill. And it seems to me that the folks who shy away from davening are mainly referring to the instituted tefillah, not to the whole relationship or to the act of talking to their G-d.
Bilvavi Mishkan Evneh, the sefer series, among many others, have made this distinction. They tell us that if we expect to have a deep relatiohship with the Creator, we will need to talk to Hashem and be alone with Hashem for significant periods of time over the course of the day, irrespective of whether we are davening shacharis, mincha and maariv. They tell jews that if you want this relationship in this life and after, we "haven't got a prayer" if all we are doing is the regular instituted prayers. Obviously they are recognizing the natural limitations and implications of those tefillos.
So if you have just acted out or whatever, and you have evidence that it won't change real soon, reach out to your only Eternal Best Friend right now. I say, "To heck with the past and to heck with the future. You are with me right here and right now and this is what I want to say to You:....."

So Iv'e varfed aroiss enough. Now it's somebody else's turn. Enjoy.