ChaimCharlie wrote on 14 Oct 2012 08:14:


It seems like a nice thing at first, but I wonder what "lasting" really means? I guess you mean being sober for a longer period of time...

Well, that's certainly a big brocha, and something to look forward to. But I pick being sober today over being sober tomorrow, yesterday, or on any other day on the calendar. I suspect you do, too, and know what I mean by this...or will soon iy"H.

But of by lasting, you mean that it goes on it's own without any work on our part - because we are 'OK'...well, then you would be following nearly everybody else in the program at one time or another. We all fantasize of 'coasting'. Of not needing to remember that we get a daily reprieve from Hashem based on simply - and imperfectly - maintaining our spiritual condition. Not deserving His help, mind you (c"v) - but just maintaining some real humility, some real honesty, and some real willingness, and taking some real actions of love. Olam Chessed yiboneh.

Without those things it does not work.

But I think you meant the first thing. So good for you!! And I hope the meeting you went to had a little giggling...

Hi guys. SA is going great, I learning how sick in the head I am. From real live people, not virtual ones that sometimes make my fantasies and lust even greater.
I'm clean for almost one month, and know that at one point I might fall from my illness, but that's not the main issue. I need to change who I am, to let the steps control me, not to let me control the steps.
Thanks GYE for setting me one this path.

Clean for over one month.
Lusting as stronger as ever, perhaps even more.
It's interesting how really good sex with my wife doesn't make me feel satisfied and contented. In fact it does the opposite.
I'm sick.
And I still desperatley yearn to have sex with every two legged object that isn't a man.
Not just yearn, need.
Big problem.
Need help.
Higher power.
Hashem.
Has worked B4 and will work again.
But big part of me doesn't even want to stop.
Tonight will see tons of dressed up girls, feel burning feelings of lust already.
That part which doesn't want to stop says that it really isn't so bad and won't really escalate and I'm not really like all those nuts in my SA group.
But hey, if one day I have sex with someone, I'm gonna do it in a second, then I'll be finished.
And it's gonna happen, for sure.
But I don't want to stop.
I want to want to stop, maybe that't enough.
But I'm going nuts, I want to at least masturbate to some sweet fantasy.
But then I'm gonna lose my sobriety, can't afford that.
Gotta run to get ready to go to that place where there will be girls to lust at.
Hashem, please help me do what I cannot do myself.
You have done countless miracles for me in the last year, just one more please.
I truly love you, Hashem. You are always with me. If not for You and Your Torah I would be long dead.

Chaim,

There's plenty to say here, but just one or two comments: Why do you need to look at any girls tonight? The answer is you don't. Take off your glasses and just don't look.

And you're right: if you ever, c"v, fall with a live person, it will be over very quickly, and you'll face a lifetime of regret (maybe a lifetime of disease as well).

B'Hatzlacha!

ChaimCharlie wrote on 14 Nov 2012 14:26:


Have you written up step one? That should be motivating.

I love Him too. It's a nice thing, to know that, right? Continued hatzlocha, sir. You can be OK tonight, and not even have to hold your breath at all. But it sounds like you have starteed to learn how to surrender without giving in. Boruch Hashem, chico!

Thanks guys.
I'm sick in the head, so I feel that I'm better than many people here since I joined SA and they didn't.
That's sick, cause I had to go cause I'm sick.
Tonight at Chasuna saw girl that was so beutifull, immediatley looked away but was too late.
Now many hours later I feel a desperate urge to masturbate to the image.
I simply can't go on without lust.
Need it to live.
Feel will die without it.
Sounds dramatic but is true.

Called someone then, told him that who says I'm sexaholic, hey, everyone else can look, why can't I?
It's not fair.
Need to look, so soothing and feels good.
Such feeling of pleasure, everyone needs it to live.
So do I.
Need to look and fantasize a bit.
Even the right thing to do, hey, it feels so sublimly natural.
I need sex now with a perfectly shaped woman.
Can't go on one more minute without.
Either way, called someone and said that feels this way.
He told me that need to remind myself ant such times that I'm an insane guy.
If is normal need like everyone, why I masturbate all life and can't stop.
Why I masturbate on Rosh Hashonoh right before Shofar?
Why I detest way wife looks cause isn't perfectly shaped object, hey, even not perfectly shaped objects need to marry someone?
Why I feel uncotrollable urge every day in street?
Why will I for sure have sex one day with someone and ruin my life?
Why thinks all day about sex?
Must be nuts.
Has problem.
Is insane.
So maybe can't look like everyone else.
This is what he told me.
Reaching out and hearing this message helped tremendously.

But now is late at night and want to masturbate.
Feel very lonley and tired and stressed and lustfull.
Need a nice soothing night of at least 5 mastubations.
Wife leaves early, can continue through the morning.
Hashem, please hold my hand.
I so much need you.
Can't myself.
I am sick so can't feel You.
Can't daven properly.
But please help me make it through the night and not fall, also in the morning.
I feel like gonna explode.
Totty, I love You and need You.

I am happy to speak with you on the phone if it helps.

ChaimCharlie wrote on 15 Nov 2012 00:03:


It's normal and even healthy to rationalize your current situation as the best possible situation.

And it's humiliating to believe that you have a big problem. Despite the fact that I think it can be overcome completely, you still can pat yourself on the back for being able to live with this belief. You are an impressive person.




You are in SA, that means at times like these you call the cavalry, consistent with your belief that you cannot win this by yourself. I assume you have a sponsor and you spoke to him already.

You can also surrender, give it up to Hashem.

When surrender is not working it's because you are ambivalent about wanting to stop. Maybe you have not written up your step one, have not figured out in what way your life has become unmanageable. Maybe you can start tonight. Stay up as long as it takes. Capture these feelings, your life sounds pretty unmanageable to me right now. As the minutes go by and you write more you will subconsciously become more determined and then you can surrender effectively.




And you can't go on with either.




So many times in the past month you surrendered and you didn't die. Now you forgot why you joined SA. Work on step one.

The reason you feel like you are going to die is because:

1. The stakes are high. Take a look at the picture at the top left of the screen. Because you have attached your self-esteem to your performance as a Jew and deep down you love sex, you feel that if you give in you will be worthless. If a guy is going to walk between buildings 300 feet up he is more likely to succeed if he doesn't mind falling down and dying. That means you need to love yourself even when you are behaving like a rasha.

2. You are conditioned to need others to stay sober. You are not going to remove that conditioning now. Call someone or keep posting here.




You don't need it. Sex and love are not an adult human need.




I am guessing you just did.




Because it's Judgment Day and you are up extra high between those buildings.




You are labeling. You do not detest it. You just like hot ladies, and so does every man out there. And you still deserve to love yourself nonetheless.




No.




Hang in there, tiger. Seriously, if you can't talk to some more people do some step work.

Thanks, R' Ned. I love you.
Have good things to say, even though dislikes SA (tha's a rhyme).

Made through night clean.
Don't really know how.
Want to say that felt Hashem's hand all the way, but that is lie.
Didn't feel anything.
In fact, now feel it's all my enormous self control.
I'm really great guy.
Like Yosef Hatzadik.
Yeah, me and him together make a team.
But that's a bit funny.
Cause before learned about powerless and surrender and tefilla,
always fell in such situations.
And then spiraled down.
Now didn't fall and didn't spiral.
Must be something changed.
That now doesn't fight urges stronger than self.
Is stupid, will lose.
Can only sit tight and wait till desire passes.
Don't feel any religous (or not religious) closeness to Higher Power.
But it still works when live that need Him to go on.
When feels weaknesses of self and know is insane.
So who cares if doesn't feel anything.
This isn't an emotional program, rather "a program of action".

Want to share something.
Felt very weak very late at night,
partly cause knew that had to wake up soon to daven and go to shiur.
But didn't want to daven and didn't want to go to shiur,
wasn't in mood for either.
At all.
So said that must masturbate,
then won't go daven and won't go to shiur.
Felt to not masturbate and still wake up on time would make too much tension and then would masturbate and not wake up on time anyways.
So told self:
Will not masturbate now, and will sleep late in morning and will not go to daven and shiur.
Cause had very tense and stress day, truly need rest and relaxation.
Can't ignore that.
But since is addict doesn't know how to wait to rest etc.
Need now.
Isn't healthy person that can withstand HALT (= hungry, angry, lonley, tired).
And now feel very much HALT.
So part of recoknizing weakness is to cut out stressfull activitioes,
sobriety comes B4 everything, even davining and shiur.

Thank you SA for teaching importance of sharing feelings.
Think that always wanted to talk about self,
but never realized is important, didn't know which part to talk about.
Like that is no pshycology in SA, only important is what works.
That's why is stupid to compare to Christianity,
this is not religion and am not serving anyone or anything,
rather am building dead muscles of Bitachon in Hashem for problems with self.
And motive is conpletley for self, so that won't die.
Even if is all wrong in relifgion and phsycology, don't care.
Need it to live.
Thank you for listening.

Wow those are some powerful posts you just put up. Thank you for your candor, I hope that you writting this out is helping you sort through your issues.

From my perspective, maybe I am wrong, I am still a newbie, use whatever works in that current situation. If tefila does it, good, if excersizing your will power does it, good. We are human, and we have moods and sometimes one thing will work and sometimes another. The important thing is that you keep working at it. If something isn't working right then, try something else.

KUTGW

ChaimCharlie wrote on 15 Nov 2012 10:34:


There have been so many times I felt like, "Don't do the just-right thing now - it'll be way too 'good' and put way too much pressure on you (me :) and then it'll backfire and I'll want to 'reward' myself with schmutz - or, I'll have to do just as good tomorrow! Aye! That won't be good, either." All nonsense.

My feelings can be so screwed up, so twisted and so...childish. It took me a few years of sobriety and program just to grow up enough to stop being a bochur. It's not about the behavior - I can fake being a good husband as well as the next guy! And I did...well, not that well, really...

But in recovery it's finally all good for real. We are growing up and living the life He arranges for us, and even enjoying the trip every now and then, too. Like right now...

(your poetry is better, chico!)

Hear you, Dov.
But not sure if agree.
Maybe part of doing the "right thing just now" is knowing when to let out some steam and drop somethings.
Don't really know.
But do agree that is not optimal.
One day want to surrender stress completly.
For now don't feel able,
so sometimes need to drop heavy burdens.

Gut Shabbos.

ChaimCharlie wrote on 16 Nov 2012 07:39:


I am not so sure Dov disagrees with you entirely. He did say in his message that it took him years in the program to do what he is suggesting. So he is sort of supporting your point. Maybe there was a good reason that it took years to get there.

Oseh Shalom bimromav! I agree with nederman!

It (living rightly) seems to be about balance (my [annoying] sponsor's favorite word), rather than perfection. Even 'perfection in balance' is not gonna happen, I believe...so the actual pressure is really very minimal. Just what works.

And there are plenty goyim the world over who are successfully living this way as a result of their recovery: working this step (we are referring to the 3rd step here) and starting to really accept G-d's Will for us. And G-d's Will for us is mainly made up of all the things that happen to us today, what our true limitations are today, who is part of our lives today, etc.) It really is OK to be living with this G-d, and still be imperfect. Doing the things He wants us to do and still being works in progress.