Kinder, Kinder, macht eich nisht narish. When you'll reach my age (some of you sooner than others) you will see why I do not join such type of discussions. Firstly my brain is already too foggy to handle such high-class philosophic/academic/professional/etc type of debate. I stick to easy-going maggidus. Secondly, bottom line is - we need to each do what is good for our own selves - not to convince others - and perhaps not even necessarily to understand other people's approaches.

I realize my words do not sound as sophisticated as others on this thread, but take it from an old timer and calm down - especially when you seem to be spinning your wheels and getting nowhere.

(So where was I up to...?)

MT

Machshovo wrote on 19 Jun 2012 21:25:
I'm 57, so I'm no young-un.

Discussion, even debate, especially when it comes to something as important as addiction, is a 2,000 year old process in Judaism.

It's all good.

From my experience, there are two basic ways to approach life -- a linear approach, which is specific, point a to point b, and a non-linear approach, which is more "random". Related to that is the difference between an intellectual approach, and an intuitive approach.

Similarly, one can approach life from a fearful point of view, or a loving point of view. Fear is the main form associated with the physical level, and love is the main form associated with the spiritual level. Likewise, fear is constrictive, while love is expansive. When constricted people interact with expanded people, there is an inevitable clash, but that's to be expected.

I've stated repeatedly that my approach is just that -- MY approach. And if it helps anyone else, that's fine; if not, that's fine too.

Nu. Now you are telling me that you are this type of person, while I am that type of person, and that I am afraid of something. If you think I would benefit from help to overcome some sort of fear, please be more specific and help me out.

But please note that I offer to openly talk about it on the phone with you, I use my real name, and I do not tell you about you. Are these things fearful? I ask about your ideas and share my opinions about them - not about you, but about your ideas. I am not telling you what you are nor am I suggesting that you are afraid, constricted, or unloving...these things show fear? Nu. But enough about you and me.

Consider once again taking the time to steer clear of the personal, and move on to responding to issues I brought up.

Thanks for the blessing of peace. I, for one, can certainly use it!

- Dov

@Dov

I think I'll just steer clear. Period.

OK. Whatever floats your boat. Maybe we will meet someday...who knows? We might actually have more in common than we have differences. Don't be surprised if you find me quite expansive (not in girth)...

skaybaltimore wrote on 19 Jun 2012 21:10:

I think this thing cooled off enough for me to post something.
Firstly, kudos to skay for sticking around the forum despite the luke-warm welcome. Of course, locking a topic and avoiding direct questions can be misconstrued as running away from an honest exchange of ideas, but if it's done for the sake of peace, than it's a positive hanhogo. So is an honest report of progress and sobriety status.
As far as the quote above:
Anecdotal evidence is only worth anything when it is quantified. Which is why Dov keeps refering to "millions helped", or the many that he knows personally who met with success when following a certain path.
But when one person keeps refering to his own and only story for proof, it could be either:
1. An exception
2. An untruth
3. A misrepresantation of facts
4. A stroke of luck
but not much in a way of worthwhile advice for others.
So my money, again, is on porn and mastrubation. And if skay wants to prove me wrong and stay sexually sober for the rest of his life "to show me", I won't mind, at all.
Have a sober day.
Mottel

obormottel wrote on 25 Jun 2012 21:53:

This is what I love about GYE.