I had been doing really well and then this week happened. In spirituallity in general I have been off my game (aka struggling) the last few weeks, but I was climbing out. then it happened. I was toying with lust (I'm just going to use that as a blanket term. there have been different types of falls this week, but they all fall under the category...). I legitimately did not want to go too far. then I did and I was broken. I was so depressed that it was no surprise when I fell again the next night, but not on accident. so I brushed myself off and said, youll do better! and then another accident. I really didnt mean for it to get so bad and then it did and I said, it's ok, it wasnt on purpose. I thought it through afterwards: yes, lust wasnt what brought me to the sight, but when what was OBVIOUSLY not ok to be looking at showed up, WHY DIDNT I LEAVE!!!!! that was stupid. and then I fell again, much slighter, but still not ok. and then today...I wanted to try some new setting (i dont want to give any ideas) on my computer and somehow it broke past the filter. I thought i could handle it, because I still had monitering from my rebbe. I dont know if he'll figure out that I fell, but man did I fall. and then I made it worse. and as I was showering tonight, trying to take the filth off my soul I started thinking: this all started with thinking. mostly about Hashem. I want to believe, because I know that deep down I do, and that with Him and His Torah this world is amazing and I can soar! but I have been having trouble seeing Him in everyday life, making things real. then it hit me tonight. Almost everytime I fall I am depressed the next day. not just guilty and beating self up, but a spiritual emptiness that not matter what I do seems to hang over me all day. I was wondering if I was going to have that, or if my levels of tumah had bypassed such a sign that says, "hey! hey Michael, it's your Neshama! I really want to shine, so stop doing that! ok?!". and usually I concur and we go on our merry way. what if it will hide longer? and then I thought about how maybe my suffering is made up to make me feel better about it, as if to fool myself into percieving spirituality to stop me from doing that again. then it really hit me: Rambam's levels of suffering-1. financial trouble-check. 2. illness-not check, unless you count depression/psychological ailments..so half check. 3. family illness-check. 4. no suffering-chas vchalila, I will take the depression PLEASE!
I really want to get better. my issue isnt only lust, it really isnt. my issue is sincerity and stability. it is not jumping head first, trying to submerge in the deep mikvah while keeping my pinky toe above water, and then popping out and only keeping my pinky toe in the water (very much metaphor...). It is learning to not define Hashem by my terms, and define myself by His. To have the courage to surrender and say, "I dont know. I have to do the best with what I have. I am powerless." I am SOO scared to do that. what if I jump and He doesnt catch me, chas vshalom. what if there is no safety net. I'll be happier, for sure. but will I be right? do I need to be? I've been so stressed, and just spending my time thinking, thinking, studying for finals, learning (thinking while learning), and just cut off from meaningful relationships (I have been yelled at here for that. I have done some work on it, not enough though). what do I do? what can I do? I really just want to be good. L'yhos tzadik v'al y'hiyos rasha. That's all I want. I just need to accept it and do it. and accept that Hashem is what He will be. It's so hard though, because I want answers and I wont get them. and I want my cake and to eat it too (with lust). I know that I cant sayt that my above checklist is because of X or Y, but sometimes it helps to realize that there is precedent for what I am going through in what I know can save me. my vent is over. chizuk would be nice, practical help would be too. thanks for listening/reading. have a great night and a greater Shabbos!

I have also had to struggle for the past 2 weeks, after a long "good" period.

The Yetzer Hara wants you to feel depressed - even more than the sin itself.
It's very important to:

1) NOT change your routine or give the negative mindset any foothold - for example, I force myself to get up and go to my regular minyan, no matter when I shut of the computer last night.
2) NOT focus on what happened - besides a short review to draw practical conclusions (like "I should shut off the computer before I go to Ma'ariv"). You are NOT drawing near to Hashem or undoing the sin by wallowing in the negative feelings - on the contrary, you are letting the Yetzer Hara "dig in" and set up shop in your mind.

Do a complete "re-set" the following morning... remember in our morning prayers we say several times that G-d has created us and the world anew each day.

I find this helps... I also am started to really think about the larger issues that are triggering me at this time, and how they are connected to this period of struggling. Many times our behavior reflects underlying issues/tensions that must be addressed.

- BBB

maybe if at the beginning of every day u read what u just wrote? always helps to read your own thoughts. Keep it up!

Welcome back! A gute voch!

thanks. I've been better since that post. not perfect, but much less severe acts of stupidity. theres too much temptation and stress. i find it difficult to deal with. I've actually been observing that a lot of guys in my direct and indirect circles have been struggling. not just in this area, but that too for sure. makes me wonder whats going on. how can I let Hashem help me when He keeps saying "no", or at least seems to be to requests for help? that's my big question right now...

I am sorry to hear of the strifes that you've been going through. Every individual knows what it's like to go through emotional pain and setbacks, and at those moments, things are the most cloudy and frustrating. You may feel hopeless and dazed, not knowing where to turn. But I assure you that with the proper perspective, at those moments of descent, lies the potential for the ultimate ascent to personal growth. Be less hard on yourself. You're wonderful, regardless of in whatever way you've acted to cause you to think otherwise. Focus on finding your point of serenity by feeling good about yourself and by slowly making an effort to advance and be better. When a person tries a little, he is inspired with help from Above, Hashem hears you and sees the beauty in you. He sees past your ego that is causing you to be depressed. Start seeing yourself in that light as well, and I hope to hear good news soon.

All the blessings

thanks. your post meant a lot, as I sometimes feel ignored here.
I definitely have work to do to get to a point like your mentioning, which sounds geshmak. I'm just not sure which factors are factors, and which are distractions. bclal I have a system that keeps me from slipping up to often, but I need to work on the underlying reasons why I do more.
kol tov

strugglingandstrivngBT wrote on 23 May 2012 18:18:

Hi Michael,
I don't think it's a fair characterization of what happens on the forum here.
You pose no questions that need be answered. Last I remembered you didn't think you were an addict. You just blog about what you know you "need" to do. What kind of input do you expect?

So you have a bad habit that flares up when you're vulnerable. I suffer from loose stool when I am under stress or pressure or when I am faced with an important decision or an event. It's not ruining my life, I just have to be in a vicinity of a restroom. I don't expect anyone on this forum to rush to my side and hold my hand when it happens. Such is life.

You want to be a tzadik. You want to be "seeing Him in everyday life, making things real". Who doesn't?
There maybe a forum outthere for Tzadikim Anonymous.

On this here forum, people want help with stopping compulsive sexual behavior, which includes porn addiction, obsessive and obtrusive sexual fantasizing, and of course, deviant sexual behavior: sex with self, sex with sex workers, sex with same gender persons. Stopping any of that bears no promise of being a tzadik.

So how would you like us to help you if your problem falls out of the scope of this forum?
One can be working this program and still falling regularly, granted.
But if one doesn't subscribe to anything that this place has to offer, how can he bemoan lack of attention or the "no" answers from Hashem?
Try asking a different question, maybe there is still a "yes" in store for you.

I have a kid who, when getting a "no", says: "I shouldn't have asked". Well, if he is looking for approval, then he shouldn't have asked until he was sure that approval was forthcoming. But if looking for permission, or an opinion, then "no" is just as valid an answer as "yes", no?
Hatzlocho,
Mottel

my issues trigger and are triggered by my acting out, which I have used ideas from this site to deal with. some have worked, some have failed miserably. the chizuk emails are great when you have emuna, they are useless when you dont. I have been told here that i need to socialize more. Finding friends has always been an issue, particularly that can relate with my struggles. it happens to be a big issue at the school i am at, and sometimes when I feel like I did last week I need SOME interaction, particulalry after the low of a fall. to see that my posts arent even being read feels quite insulting. I refuse to call myself an addict because I have been told by mental health profesionals that I am not one. so I should lie to myself because some people (not even the ones with the most experience) here say I should? I recognize that I need to work through something, but I have never been given any practical advice and that is what I need. I am plenty theoretically abstract myself, thank you very much. if this place isnt for me fine, but tell me (which ein chachi nomi, you just did). dont just ignore me. it will only make things worse.

strugglingandstrivngBT wrote on 23 May 2012 19:11:


Dear friend,

I don't think anybody here can really tell you whether this place is for you or not. Nobody really knows you and what your real story is all about. Only you yourself know (or should know) yourself and your story, and like everyone else around here, you should be able to look around and see whether this place appeals to you or not. Most people come here and it's love at first sight. Others need some more time until they see how they may benefit from sticking around. Yet others look around and determine that this is not what they need at this point and they just disappear without a fuss. So again, you be the judge and decide where you stand in the world, and how you fit (or don't fit) into the GYE community. We are here to be of help, not to make you miserable.
So please calm down and take it easy. Kol hascholos koshos (as it says by Matan Torah), but it's worth the investment.

Hatzlacha

MT

strugglingandstrivngBT wrote on 23 May 2012 19:11:

What does that mean? Which issues?


which ones?


What are you talking about? Why reading a daily email reminding you to stay sexually sober requires emuna?


My grandma used to take me by the hand and bring to a playground, and forcibly introduce me to other kids. Thirty years later, I prefer to make friends on my own, even though I still have trouble with the process. How about you, do you feel you can use a grandma's iron grip?

Firstly, how do you know whether they are being read? Secondly, don't get so easily insulted, we are for the most part busy professionals and allocate our time to projects that promise some kind of return on investment. As I wrote to you, you ask no questions and take no direction. How should people reply to your journaling? With ooooh's and aaaah's? I dare say that would be insulting...


I agree.


No offense taken, I surely have little experience with helping other people.
Nor did I suggest that you should. You shouldn't. Lying is wrong. You are not an addict. Got it.


Huh?
You're not an addict, and you seem to imply that you don't have emuna (although all Jews are maaminim bnei maaminim). You also are so theoretically abstract that you can't even say what your problem is and what kind of help you'd like. So how can a forum for "Internet Addiction for Jewish men" (and with an Orthodox leaning) help you?
I can't tell if this place is for you or not. You've been here long enough to figure it out.


I hope this qualifies for not ignoring you...I also hope that you understand that you can't expect answers to your non-questions.


Not for me, it won't. For you, maybe. But it's not my concern, really.
My enlightened self-interest prompts me to help and engage with a fellow sex addict, thereby improving my chances of keeping my disease in remission.
Debates with no tachlis will only distract me from working on my recovery.
I hold no official position on GYE to say whether someone belongs here or not. But I can certainly choose to ignore unproductive and provocative blogging, can't I?

Mottel
P.S. You don't have to be an addict to benefit from what GYE has to offer. Start with reading GYE in the Nutshell, figure out where you are holding, and use practical advice from the handbook to help with your problem (whatever it is).

there is a lot of response there and I wish to attend but am unable at the moment. the one thing I will say is there is a "read" count on the message board, and when I saw others getting responded before mine got read I got upset. I take responsibility for the vaugness of my previous posts, and much of my frustration. with that in mind, B'ezras Hashem I will respond later.

Part of staying sober is recognizing that as someone who has fallen in the past, "going not too far" is itself going too far. It's like taking a gun with one bullet spining the barrel and complaining after you've shot yourself that you really didn't want to shoot yourself and you really wanted a blank. If you don't want to get shot don't pick up the gun in the first place.
We can't dip our toes in the water and expect not to get wet. The Yetzer Hora is too smart to tell us to go on and look straight for porn. Instead he convinces us that's not what we are really looking for. But lo and behold we end up their. If you keep the your internet for legitimate business or schooling needs and don't treat it as a recreational (or even an informational) tool you'll have an easier time staying clean.
Much hatzlacha

Hatzlocha, SSBT!