ontheedgeman wrote on 17 May 2012 01:58:

Because they are still idealists.
And I don't think they mean to cure the addiction. I myself am living with this one day at a time, and little soundbytes of chizuk do help me. Short term, not long term. I hope no one thinks I'm being overbearing by saying some Torah thought. If I felt unwelcome, I'd no longer be able to speak my mind, and that would defeat the purpose of being here.
Sorry... :-[

you have spoken wisely and soundly, I'll go back to my corner now.
kol tuv b'ahava.

thank you everyone for your words advice and yes vortim.
anyone and any thing that might help is welcome.
on the edge - כשמו כך הוא
a bit on edge?
hang in there! dont go over the edge.

alexeliezer wrote on 16 May 2012 14:38:


I think Ill have to disagree on this one: The Torah says 'vechay bahem' and not that on should die/risk his life for T&M. I think in that case, asking Hashem for assistance in driving carefully and having clean thoughts is enough. As long as when walking, etc we work on shmiaras haeynayim and everything being said in this post (i must admit i have not had time to read it all), and in a situation that could be life threatening (like slightly veering the head, closing one eye, while driving) we just have to keep our eyes on the road and if a girl pops into our eyesight on the side, we must continue to look at the road and cars, asking Hashem to keep us both alive and clean at the same time. drive safely

decided to attack from a different angle
made some severe restrictions on my filter
to keep me away from websites that i think are ok
but they are really getting me into a goyish mindset
safe news sources that seem ok
but they get my mind away from where it should be

but thats just the start....

There is a story (I don't know if its true) that the Imrei Emes of Gur met the Rogechover Gaon and after the Rogechover left the Imrei Emes said "he remembers all of his learning because he guards his eyes as it says ולא תתורו אחרי לבבכם ואחרי עיניכם... למען תזכרו "

JJ

another little trick that helps
Instead of saying to myself "I'm not interested"
which is a lie
I say "she's not interested"
for me thats a major factor in controlling my mind from looking for trouble.

to the tech chevra out there
apparently when i "custom"arily blocked everything with k9
i must have blocked my avatar from showing up
how do i get it back?

Is your avatar linked to an image on another site?


Instead try uploading it directly to GYE.

ontheedgeman wrote on 17 May 2012 03:49:

No, no! Stay! Stay with us!
Hatzlocha.

OnTheEdgeManYou, buddy, you wrote:



It's always been that way. As long as the kli is being poleit, it will not have to actually be boliyah anything at all.

It's a way to remain in one's comfort zone - a filter against any real change.

Shutting up is the only way to really start to hear. It's why I stopped posting at all for three months. I probably need to shut up again, soon, too...

Gevura wrote on 17 May 2012 12:27:


i tried but it says that its too big.

it's true... sometimes these forums can actually be a kind of acting out for me, in the sense of indulging and reliving my fantasies or my aveiros. why talk about the 12 steps of recovery when we can talk about how close we came to acting out, how we fell, how we can set up this and this geder.

step 1 is "we admitted we were powerless...". does that mean wear sunglasses? close one eye? Walk backwards? jump in a mikveh, take cold showers?

I guess my question is: how do 99% of these posts deal with the actual way out of addiction as opposed to more failed attempts to control.

What am I powerless over? I thought it was one thing, but it's more than that. I was powerless over alcohol. That I could admit and it's been 18 months and I haven't looked back. My cravings for booze are gone. but now my cravings have transferred to other things.

Step 2 - "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity". how many posts on this site are about the awesome Power of H" to restore us to sanity? I thought I did step 2 but I applied it only to alcohol. Eventually I came to believe that only massages could restore me to sanity. My step 2 was broken.

Step 3 - "made a decision to turn our will and lives over to Gcd..." truth is, despite being "sober" for 18 months, I have trouble doing this. how can the same Gcd who gave my wife cancer, seemingly cure it, only to have it relapse (and now finally in remission) how can He be trusted? He has blessed me a million times over since then... to be sure... but deep down I have that fear and sadness and mistrust... That's a real major crack in my emunah that I just haven't gotten over and I don't know how I can. more meetings, more discussions. tears come to the eyes as I think about recovery in this context. I want to have full emunah, I have a bookshelf of books on Emunah...

anyhow those are my thoughts. let's talk about the steps to the way out, no?

(Ontheedgeman)


(Dov)


Shkoach for the toychocho, mekabel and maskim...

ontheedgeman wrote on 17 May 2012 20:26:


Strange as it may sound to addicts who are doing really well with the 12 steps, there may be other ways to get better. And I need to believe that fighting - though it is certainly just plain stupid and often horribly destructive to families and lives - might actually work for many people, too. I'd sooner suggest they are not addicts, at all...but we do not have a monopoly on recovery nor on "quitting".

True, the lying and denial are rife in the ranks of those who who look down or hesitate to really use the steps, who often say things like:

1- "Really opening up to another real person just doesn't work for me" (really we are just ashamed, chicken, or know that admitting it to a real person will jeopardize their ability to keep acting out their lust with the shred of 'self-respect' we have left!)

2- "Use my real first name?! Too dangerous." (is my life in the toilet? My real name is all over the place, and much of my dirt. Veiter chicken...

3- "It'd be a chillul Hashem for me to go to a meeting with all those goyim there." (More chicken on the menu...this time the chicken begins to taste funny. If Rav Amram Chasida ["Noorah b'veis Amram!"] would have used that excuse [he obviously didn't!], we wouldn't have had an Amram Chasidah!)

4- "Iv'e been clean for a week after plotzing for more porn and masturbating for five years...and here is how I did it: ...." (Check please!)

..and lots of other goofy things. So? They might actually be right!! And besides, GYE is not only for addicts. As i repeat so often, contrary to what rav Avrohom Twerski implies he believes, i submit to you that a minority of the people who use GYE are addicts at all. There is also a YH for porn because it feels good, period. Nothing to do with living a double life, and they really can stop. This is normal people. There are still a lot of them, even in 2012!



What sanity shmanity? The majority of people who look at porn or masturbate once in a while are not insane, but just stupid. Or just lack enough yir'as Shomayim. Maybe they don't need an infusion of sanity, but just a pat on the back and something to keep them busy....maybe. Who are we to know? Only trial and error really prove anything.

Stay cool, man. It is working for you? It ain't easy to be simple? You falter at times and wonder where He is and what He is doing with you? Nu. We are not G-d. And you are probably doing just fine. It works of you work it.

Somebody said that a big difference between me and G-d is that He doesn't go around all day thinking He's me!

Give your wife a hug and a kiss, love her as best you can. You deserve it. In that, you will find a place for G-d and it'll grow from there, maybe. It does for me.