I hate myself. I am to weak and pathetic to deal with this problem that Hashem has given me. I am just disgusting and always will be, because I am too pathetic to stop. I want to just kill myself. If I am too pathetic to deal with my own problems, how can I ever become a rabbi who can help others. I have just given up.

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some_guy wrote:


I pretty much disagree with everything you just wrote

1. Even if you hate yourself, Hashem still loves you (dearly)
2. Weak? maybe. Pathetic, no.
3. You are not disgusting and will never be.
4. You don't want to kill yourself, You would much rather find a way to deal with the problem
5. how can I ever become a rabbi who can help others. You've never seen a fat doctor?
6. You have't given up , if you did you would have not posted and would have killed yourself (which Baruch Hashem you did not do)

Perhaps when you get this demon under control (by using the apropriate tools that work for you), you will be able to help people in a way that other cant because of your personal experience

Eli

Gave up? Awesome. I also recently gave up, and when I acted on it by joining SA I have been sober for almost three months. It's not at all through my own POWER, cause that did'nt get me to far for 10 years, but so what?
The life after death is great.
Keep on giving up!!

What would happen if you don't become a Rabbi, what would mean to you?

Why did it take three posts until Nederman asked the right question?

Who cares currently becoming a Rabbi, isn't a simple good healthy and sane Jew right now enough for you? I think it is just away of letting yourself free to do what you want, by setting the bar high and not being able to see yourself in the current state getting to it. Just want to be a simple good frum Jew, once you get there only then move the bar a bit higher.

Yitzchok

I think you are thinking that I was asking a rhetorical question. I wasn't. I was trying to get to the bottom of it.

I probably already know why he wants to become a Rabbi, because that will finally make him deserve to be alive. But he is the one who has to see that. People who are not clinically depressed may not appreciate what it means to believe that you do not deserve to be alive.

some_guy, your brain is not going to let you argue it out of being depressed. Only action works, because you watch yourself act a certain way and try to find a justification for it, and there are always justifications to be found. You choose what you think, and you feel they way you think. To fix your depression you have to act towards yourself as you would towards a valued guest. Treat yourself like royalty regardless of performance as a Jew or other role, and you'll be able to dump this cacamemi idea that different people are worth different "amounts." I went through that myself. Don't wait another twenty years to do this.

Maybe your therapist didn't stress the action point.

If you are ready to give up, then are you ready to also get help? Or are you only ready to give up your way?

When you say "giving up", I assume you feel like giving up on yourself. And that hurts, for it is unnatural. I know that feeling well - and it never ever got me anywhere but lusting even more.

But when the recovery people I know say "giving up", they mean the opposite of giving up on ourselves. They mean completely giving up on winning by our power, and instead doing whatever it takes not to lose [b]ourselves[/b].

Jews have been giving up for millenia - in war. The Torah teaches us it is fine to give up, in fact. It teaches us davka not to have self-confidence in physical battle. It teaches us that when we see the enemy and it's minions and realize we can't win, to depend on G-d, not ourselves, not our battle plans, and not even on our past great successes. This is the rule for parnossah, too...even according to R' Yishmo'el.

The problem you have is surely involving aveiros - but (if you are an addict like I am) I see it primarily as a mental/physical/emotional battle, rather than a religious one. I assume you have seen it and approached it as a religious one till now for - how many years...and so, here we are. I think it is more like the very physical battle the Torah is speaking of, and like our struggle for parnossah.

And if you have really given up winning by your power and are willing to do anything to save yourself, I consider you fortunate - even though it may hurt so much right now. But the victory will take action rather than just thinking, posting, and really, really wishing. Real opening up and real reaching out for real help (usernames do not work) is the only thing I know that makes this thing get out of fantasy and become as real as your money, your health, and the rest of real life are to you. "Keboreyach min ha'esh", as the sforim tell us...if you were really on fire, you would not be ashamed to do whatever was really necessary to put it out and keep it out. Right?

Hatzlocha. You are not alone and there is a lot of help out here to live free and stay free.

Hi everybody. Sorry I disappeared for a while. I have been having a really hard time. Can someone just send me a message?

Hi!!! I'm new to this forum, but I was looking through some of your posts- you're an amazing guy! Don't give up!

My message to you is simple; don't give up! no matter what!

Hashem does not expect you to be perfect, He is your eternal father, He knows your plight. Talk to him, just like talking to a human being. Do it when you are alone in a room. He does listen!

Also you should know that according to Rabbai Nachman from Breslov if you wash yourself and then say the Tikun Haklali, which takes about ten minutes to say, you are going a long way in your repentance.

Dear Some guy,

Any time you wish to talk, I'd be glad to chap a shmooze abt what things are like by you these days. I tried PM-ing you, as u asked. Nu.

Gut moed!

- Dov

I can't do this. There is not a mikvah in my town. Also, I read that the Tikun Haklai only works for accidents. I purposely went to the websites.

both those things shouldn't have to do with you doing this....

what has to do with doing it is being committed to do what it takes to stop and then doing it. i cant think of anything else that should make a difference

if you're committed then you will eventually win because we don't get a test that we can't handle even addiction

hatzlacha

Sorry, but that sounds very nice but is not relevant. Notice that I did not disagree with you. All I am saying is that it is not relevant that the person has bechirah and can do it - because he doesn't do it. Why he does not do it is not worth the debate.

While the sweet yid is fighting the good fight and definitely racking up tremendous Olan haboh - even if he falls every other week, Hashem still gives him amazing nitzchiyus s'char for the sincere effort he makes to stop when he is omeid b'nisayon!

But who cares? Not his wife - who gets his Chlamydia or Herpes. Not his kids - who don't really have a father because he is just too emotionally burdened 'fighting his yetzer hora'. Not his Jewish heart - that is getting hollowed out by living a double life (or really only a half a life!).

And not me. (but who cares about me? )

This is not about the beauty of struggling or the value of being omeid b;nisayon. This is a battle for a life. It is reality vs fantasy, winning a real life and being a real part of - vs losing and being a stranger to everyone around us who really matters. There is surely no perfection in recovery and in winning - but there is no 'middle ground', either!

I hope my point is well taken and helpful.

Love,

Dov