Really? You're most welcome, and I sincerely am trying to help, care for you a lot, and wish you (and your wife) only the very best. So I am really glad you feel that way.

But now what?

any suggestions?

Yeah, maybe a lot of suggestions. But there is no way anyone could implement more than one at a time. Real life problems are not a question/answer thing. Besides, there are many ways to the same goal.

But if you ask me, I'd consider starting with losing the silly idea that your wife saves you or helps you in any way to overcome any 'yetzer hora'. That is sheker. It is abuse of a woman. It is abuse of marriage. And it is twisting of Chaza"l. In general, whatever you have been using till now to fight this problem and solve it, I would suggest you become suspicious of - for it is likely to have been exactly what got you into the mess in the first place.

You have probably come a long way already. But it may be the right time for you to go even further.

Is there are way you can establish some relationships with safe people who will understand your problem so you can get open about exactly what your challenges are and what is really going on day to day? That might be a great first step forward.

As far as the wife, every marriage is a little different - but I think it is rare that any woman (or any marriage - which includes your 'husband-ness') can remain truly healthy and intact when there is sexual dependence on the other. It makes no difference it that dependence is seen as a 'mitzvah'. Dependence is using, and it changes both parties and how they each see each other. So...

Consider what you can do to start reinstating your wife's womanhood in your own eyes. Flowers won't do it. Even washing dishes and doing her favors won't do it. If you have no idea what her femininity even means, then you may need to huddle with her and learn. But she may have forgotten what her femininity is, herself! She may have been trained out of it by your marriage, by herself being a bit ill, whatever. But getting together to discuss openly how the two of you can work on your marriage together will help no matter what, in the long run.

Of course, if the entire thing with porn and masturbation is a big secret toi your wife (sorry I don't remember whatever you may have wrotten abt this issue in previous posts right now), then that is a sensitive issue that needs good time and counsel to broach. So you see another way the lusting behaviors put walls between spouses. Gevalt.

I do not know your exact situation of course, but it could be that not kvetching her at all sexually will help both of you a great deal. Has she ever had that? - Being shown how much you love her by laying in bed with her and not expecting the holding and kissing to lead to sex? Sincere words, tears, and poems, are meaningless here - the only way (for either of you) to 'know' that, is simply for it not to lead to sex a few times...and it not end up leading you to just get your sweet fix from a free porn goddess (or your hand) instead. If you do this right - meaning with her working together with you to help the marriage be more like the way the two of you want it to be - it will make it so much easier for you to stay clean. That may seem crazy to you right now. But Chaza"l were not drinking when they said "mar'ivo sava", you know. But there is a wrong way to 'starve' it (self-will, willpower) and a right way to 'starve' it (love for yourself, for your wife, and some real surrender to Hashem).

Just ideas, that's all. Maybe for you, maybe not.

Dov wrote:


I want to add that what Dov wrote here is 100% true. I am now learning the hard way that these behavior have done so much damage to my marriage. Only now have I started to pick up the pieces and it is not easy. Try to remove the dependence from my mind was hard, trying to remove it from my wife's is so much harder.

But you have to start somewhere.

MBJ wrote:

i also agree thanks for dov for telling me and still working on it

i am renewing my geder after 35 days past
bli neder if i will be falling within the next 30 days
i will destroy 60$
in the last month i fell once, i just ask hashem that for the coming 30 days i shouldnt fall thru the internet

So it seems you respect Dov.
Dov has already told you that he doesn't agree with your geder of tearing up money.
So why are you ignoring him?
Is $60 the most you'll be willing to lose?
Do you think that the bad feeling you'll get by tearing up the money will be a kapara for falling?
Do you have a plan besides this?
Are you working on yourself?
In short, cut this garbage with the tearing up money and get with the program!
Any real program!

today i became a little popular

thank you for your reply
i think i actualy follow the program... isnt this part of the thaphsic method?
in addition exactlky this method i heared on the confrence shiurim from Dovi (see prevention site confrence calls)
anyway, i beleve their is no rules, every situation is diffrent, if i feel it helps for me... i dont need anything more
if you would know my backround, and my financial situation you would also agree
All my problems started when i went into a private office... isnt this the target where i should fix? Ha?
if the roof is leaking i am not going to fix the floor.

I hope you understand, i am just trying

Thank you

All your problems started when you went into a private office? What's that mean, chaver?

i used to work in an open place where people used to see my screen, when i changed to a private office i got chalanges

tahnk you

Oh....that's it...I understand now. Does keeping your door open (or removing the door entirely off the hinges) help you stay in real life?

the above is done already...
it is a good idea

sorry to dissapoint all readers
but i was clean for about 17 days and i had a fall last thursday and yesterday again
thinking about next step

gyegye2 wrote:

you are not dissapointing anyone try to learn fromj it how? why? what steps u refering to 12 steps? and listen to dov he is the best