gyegye2 wrote on 27 Nov 2012 18:14:


It is clear that you are very sincere, gyegye2!

But this stuff you write about tearing up your money, and takanos to do this, or that, seems to me to be nahrishkeit'n.

Hashem needs your heart to bleed and bleed and bleed for Him, chaver. No? The whole tragic acting game is getting very boring - and I suspect it is getting boring for you for years, too... even spicing it up with these dramatic punishments is not working. Guilt-blasting, self-punishing, fake fighting business. How is it working for you so far? Apparently just failure.

Nobody can punish himself. Artificial punishments are just ourselves pretending we are hurting because of the masturbation. Of course, it is really not because of the masturbation that we are suffering, but rather it is only because of our decision to k'nass ourselves that we are suffering. So? What does that do? Calling it "because of masturbating" will never make it so, and we know it.

And just as useless as that self-flagellation is, so with all the guilt talk. It's useless for you, chaver.

So.

Want to try something else?



And one more idea I'd like to share with you - if we are still buddies:

What is you exact goal, here? It seems to me that your goal is simply to never ever look at porn again and to never ever masturbate yourself again. That is a goal that is defined by failure.

A goal like that is guaranteed to fail. Practically speaking, you never 'succeed' is to be able to say right before you die, "I made it!...ughhh...(dead)". That's the only true success! And all the chizuk speeches about how "every single clean day is a great, great success!!" - is just fluff. Should you ever act out, it feels the same. You lost. As long as you are alive, such a goal means that you are basically seeing every day as a shayloh: "will today be the day I screw it all up, or not?" It's just as a President once said about terrorists: we win by being vigilant a thousand times - they win by slipping through once.

Just something you may think over. Let us know what you think if you want to.

was clean for 10 days
then for smother day
thinking about next step

hello dov,
first of all, please note that i know that this is a strugel for the whole life, and i know that every day is a win.
it looks like you dont think that i do a good process to try to get better.
if you have any suggestions please let me know
all i know is that i am trying to get better...
so far the ripping money method worked b"h, i fell already for about 10 days ago nut at least not thru the internet
for me this is a big gain, i think you can understand, at least i dont take more wild imaginations in to my head
60$ is a lot for me

thank you

No, this is not a struggle for the whole life. I have discovered that this is a mistake. Why do you say this, chaver?

"kol hagodel meichaveiro yitzo godel heimeno"
the whole purpose of chalenges is to try to overcome it,
the chalenges will change, but the fight will be, no?
I beleve it becomes easyer, but it will alwayes be a fight.
let me know if i am wrong,
I will be very glad to hear that the fight will end, wow, sounds exiting.

I just posted about something like this elsewhere: http://www.guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/200232-Channel-everything-to-my-wife?limit=15&start=15

Story abt Rav Sa'adia Gaon (some tell it of other tzaddikim, and goyim probably tell it about Ghandi;) ):

The gaon was at an inn without his entourage and got a regular room for the night. The next day, someone told the innkeeper who the guest really was - Aye! He had no idea! The innkeeper was very ashamed that he had put the Gaon up in a regular room, had spoken to him in only second person, etc. He came and flung himself at the gaons feet tearfully begging for mechilah. After a few sobs, her heard no response so he looked up - and saw the gaon on the ground, too!

The gaon was crying, "Hashem! I know you so much better today than I knew You yesterday. When I look at my avodah of yesterday, my attitude and actions, I feel just like this innkeeper does: Had I known You yesterday the way I know you today, I never would have behaved that way! Please forgive me!" And so, tzaddikim do 'Teshuvah' for the past - even though the past was not aveiros!

Recovering people stay 'recovering' because when we stop growing, we die. Bameisim chofshi is not mussar, just reality. As long as we live, we will need to continue using the tools that help us grow and have challenges.

But does the adult still have the challenges of a child? No way. Same with recovery. And the same with regular avodas Hashem, too, for the non-addict.

Let me ask you a question. If there really will always be a fight, what exactly is your complaint about that?

I guess I am asking what you mean by "a fight", and what you mean by "always".

Thanks,

Dov

nice story
if it will always be a fight... i am not complaining, i beleve it is good, because hashem made it
when i say a fight i mean a chalange
wheni say alwayes i mean till you die.
thank you

oy my.. it i not easy,,, it is not easy... hashem i do it fpr you for you fpr you my father... almost every day i have chalanges hashe please help me succeed, i cant fight with an angel, i just cant, but if you will help me or do it for me, it will happen, it is all up to you
you are giving the chalenges and only if you fight for us we can over comr it

today i made my new sig
after i saw what i wrote a nice slang in my post
as i read it over and i liked it
the other part is a nigun of the badichver

just had big chalange, just because i had desires
but i chat with dove
b"h the wave is over
I dont know why by the end of the day at work i have desires
i think it is because i am to stressed at the end of the day after a whole day at work
hashem help

i was clean for 15 days
i had a fall yesterday night
after 2 weeks that my wife was nidah
i had such desires that the fall just happened so easyly,
i didnt jouch nyself even
just had a small fentesy for a few seconds and here you go
anyway, since i am working on gye program i never succeded to go 2 full weeks when my wife was ossur... so this is prograss for me, next time iy"h i hope to do even better
slowly slowly
i really feel like i didnt have much of a choice yesterday
today in the chizuk email it said that you dont have to win just to do what you have to do, so i guess this is what i an doing now
i think next time my wife will be ossur i will go om the thaphsic method for that time....
hashem only if you will help me i can succeed, i am not stronger then an angel

I do not insult at all, c"V, but want to say I think you are trying to have change without changing at all. You are trying to become different just by not doing evil. And that is nothing but holding your breath.

A person does not get any more tahor by staying in the mikvah longer till maybe he can't hold his breath any more...either you are in and tahor, or you are not in and still tamei.

How long can you hold your breath?

I am suggesting to you that you start looking for ways to behave differently in life - not about your bris or tayvos, but about how you see other peoople, the wife, children, parents, customers, chavrusas, whoever you have in your life. Try talking to G-d a little differently. Nicer maybe, more considerate maybe, davening for other people - especially the people you have tayvoh for.

Being different is really very different than what you have been till now. Start small and slow but never give up.

thank you dov
i will try to remember to daven for others and davven more conciderate

i am sorry to dissapoint all of you
but I had another fall for 2 days ago
it was very hard
i actualy fell thru the internet
I have no choice i will take 60$ and destroy it
it is a lot money for me, but i am going to keep to my word
at least you can understand how strongly i had the desires even that i had to destroy 60$
and now i am not sure how i will have money to buy bread and milk,
hashem will help
this was while my wife was niddah.....
next ime i think i will do the thaphsic method while my wife is nidah, I hope it will go better....
one holy bashefer can help
Now my wife is already clean, i am looking forwared for stronger days

Poor woman. I would not appreciate being anyone's receptacle. I wouldn't care if people called it 'saving him from the yetzer hora' - that is just a silly label. If it's either with her - or with someone else - then I say it's really not with her at all.

Thanks Dov for your reply