When I was in 12th grade, I realized the 'powers' that my body had and I was scared. After a few months, I asked for an appointment to speak with my Rebbe and when I met with him to tell him 'circumventatively' about what I was doing, I started crying. He reassured me that things would be ok and he gave me advice that I still think of to this day (Almost 10 years later). But I have this problem that because I feel like he's the only one who knows, I can't confront him even as many current and former talmidim are forging strong two-way relationships with him. I sit across from him everyday by davening but I never try to make eye contact with him even though I have accomplishments to be proud of. It eats me up every time he's near me, and it gnaws at me when I see other talmidim beaming, laughing, and asking him serious shailos as well when they are with him. Can any of you help? Or do you feel the same way about someone in your life? I really want to repair my relationship with him, but I have his fear, I guess because I'm still not "out of the woods" regarding this addiction.....Thanks in advance for your replies.......

#1 Why do you call yourself an addict? Because you look at porn or masturbate sometimes? That is not an addict (look up the term in a dictionary), but a just normal person with a sexual desire. Some yidden do better, some do worse. You are not dead, thank-G-d. Now, if the extent of your problem is a lot more than that, it's certainly a different story - but you didn't give any indication of that yet. Do you have more that you'd like to share? This is one of the safe places to do that.


#2- I am sure that a few of those smiling and laughing guys you see, have already bared the truth asbout their own masturbation habit with this same rebbi. Yes.

Yes.

You just make it into a huge, serious, and dark stain on yourself. while others have an easier time moving on.

#3 - your rebbi may have some manner of porn or masturbation problem himself, or had one for many years...and you may end up as good an adviser as he may be - when you come out the other end of this tunnel. Patience, man. You are far from alone.

SA's White Book ('The Problem', p. 203): "Many of us felt inadequate, unworthy, alone, and afraid. Our insides never matched what we saw on the outsides of others." You are doing this to the tee, and so do we all.

You are judging and comparing your insides to the outsides of others. You do not have the slightest idea what their struggles are. That kind of negative fantasizing is a luxury that sensitive people like us (whether you are an addict or not) cannot afford. Consider dropping the fantasy and the pride.

No, you are not unique, no you are not mesugal to be anything near perfect, and no your Rebbi does not look down on you (or any other person) for masturbating yourself. He is human and probably knows what you struggle with personally in some way. Personally.

Continued hatzlocha and may Hashem fulfill all the true and beautiful mishalos libecha letovah, Amen!

Dear Nero Yair
Read Dov's words carefully they are very true

Think of it this way -- If all of these bochrim truly have a deep relatioship with their rebbe they have told him many things which are not that positive... but why is someone who has questions in emunah seen as someone who is growing and trying but someone else who has desires and challenges with M or P seen as dirty ?

Partly this is the YH trying to shame us into bad behavoir - the message you are getting is I am evil, dirty what ever- so why even try to daven to hashem or talk to my rebbe - he must think the worst of me

Not so -- If this rebbe is truly worthy of your respect ( which I would venture he is) then he will see your stuggle with desires as also an attempt to grow and become closer to hashem - do not let the YH convince you that you are bad in someway beacuse of your desire - ( that is not to say you need to succomb to your desires) no take this as challenge from hashem - and he only gives challenges to those that can overcome them
remember that many talmidei Chamaim in this generation have identified shmiras enayim and related matters as THE MOST IMPORTANT AVODAH
more important than how many daf you learn or how much time you spend on your shmoneh esrei
IF you can open up to your rebbe or another rebbe and  pour out your heart this is the first step towards changing your relationship with Hashem and moving forwards towards your chleck in olam habah !!
Release your self conciousness - as Dov said you are not dead - you have desires - almost all men have these desires - just like the desire to eat on yom kippur - but we overcome that desire - this too can be overcome - you just need to work on the problem openly and honestly

good luck !
A

Based on what the two of you both very eloquently said, I see I have a lot to learn. As far as the rebbe is concerned, when I'm near him, I purposely daven sweeter, clearer, act like a Rebbe figure myself when guys come to talk to me after davening, etc., I guess subconsciously to make him think that I've overcome my "problems" (Dov, sometimes I'd like to think I'm on the cusp of addiction, but now I have to rethink my definition....) and am in control of myself. So, A, what you were saying about furthering the relationship with HKB"H, I feel like I only live with Hashem (ein lanu al mi l'hisha'ein...), as I value my tefilla very much (NOT just shmoneh esreh- the WHOLE package), but my main fault and the one fault hindering me growing and further reaching my potential to grow and be a role model for others surrounds me and hounds me often. I work for a living, but I spend a lot of time in Yeshiva, so people look up to me as being someone who values Torah and avodas Hashem, but realistically has to work to support a family.

You wrote:
NeiroYair wrote on 25 Dec 2011 16:00:


...and exactly what is that fault? Exactly, factually, and explicitly, please.

For me, I think "it" has yet to be fully defined. I mean the thoughts in my head remain seemingly ever-present and being the perfectionist introvert that I think I am, I try to always cover my tracks, never think about any specific person when giving in to my desires because I know the damage it can cause a marriage, my davening, etc. and yet just constantly yearn for the action, perhaps yearn for the closeness and bond it can bring. But after trying to figure it all out, I revert to square one: What caused me to be so "attracted" to the female "race"? I grew up more or less secluded from society (Although, I did go to a co-ed elementary school, I was the 'frummy' kid, velvet yarmulka and all), currently work in an all frum environment, am happily married to someone who knows of my struggles (to a pretty strong extent), but can't seem to figure out what "it" is. The cause that I so yearn to define...I never saw pure pritzus until  I kind of suspected my father looking at inappropriate things and searched the computer to validate my suspicions. But this was before the computer/internet became so big. I had thoughts of being with an isha as far back as I can remember (i.e FIRST GRADE!!!- And yes, I remember a specific story from first grade....) I feel like I've been born cursed, forcing myself to struggle chas v'Shalom "forever". I HAVE made so many strides in my Avodas Hashem, but I feel like I can't break through and reach that potential I KNOW is in me. But that's why I have fears of speaking to Rabbeim. I've worked so hard, yet failed repeatedly and don't want to disappoint them also. I know that's ridiculous, but I just live day in day out with this "yearning' to be close to an isha. Anxiously awaiting your precious reply........

If you were born cursed, then I believe the only curse is this:

Women are on a pedestal for you. The 'untouchables'. The seperation from them in school - as if they are somehow poisonous...the story in 1st grade (and your reticence to spell out exactly what happenned)...I guess your definition of 'pure pritzus' is nudity of women...this yearning to be close to an "isha" - it proves that deep down inside, you truly believe  that they and their nudity are powerful and precious to you. But they are not powerful. They are weak, just like you and me. They are not more precious than you or I are. They are just real, regular, people with the same worries and pains as you, me, and the rest of the world. They are not "isha"s and not things to 'gotta get close to'. They are people.

I am not lecturing you - you know all this in your head and I suspect always have. So I am not addressing your head. I am addressing your heart. Your heart is twisted, and sees value where there really is none.

Like most teenage boys with the tabboo of naked woman - they become powerful and valuable to us, and then when we discover masturbation they become like gasoline to the lust engine inside. It consumes, and satisfies...at first. Eventually it only consumes and does not satisfy. So we start searching for kinkier and riskier stuff. It stops being fun any more.

Ashrecha if you are ready to give it up. Please, please drop thinking and figuring it out. Just live clean today and don;t even consider what tomorrow will bring. You cannot do anything about it today, at all. Did anyone in the human race ever successfully go to the bathroom today - for tomorrow?! Never. You can only do today's work today, and will have to do tomorrow's work tomorrow. There is no trick, no gimmick, and no segulah to "beating" this. Sure, many sell such things. They are about "figuring it all out", "making yourself into a kadosh", "building a wall"...if they work for you, that's great.

If they do not, then you'll still be left with today, for today, and that's it. G-d is with you. Few of us allow Him to help us, even though we daven and daven...we do not change our values! The "race of women" and their powerful nudity retain that pedestal and power for us - and we expect G-d to keep us away from our gold?! We are the ones who give them this power. We can give up that right to have them, and choose to give up our lust just for this day. He will help us, but ein hadovor tolui ella bee.

We have some work to do. And it always and only starts with staying clean today, period. As a friend of mine (another drunk in recovery) used to say, "We can't think ourselves into right living - we can only live ourselves into right thinking."

He was right for giving it up and letting G-d. We were wrong for holding on and playing G-d.

I think also that I always grew up with this misconception that a woman was more caring, understanding, yata, yata, yata, and could care for my every personal and physical need. I do not, however, refer to pure pritzus as just nudity- unfortunately I mean the whole package. Secondly, I think you'll be proud of me in the post I labeled "Victory!! On erev Shabbos Chanukah, no less" in this forum, as a "take things one day at a time" approach.

The dakusdikeh chiluk (fine difference) in what we are doing now - what makes it so precious and effective -  is that instead of trying to figure out why we did what you did, we are  simply trying to admit to ourselves what you actually did/were doing. And admitting it to others often comes long before true admission to ourselves.

I am ready to admit and have spent the last two days speaking with my wife about my findings on this sight. I will Be"H be posting my story on the "Introduce Yourself" forum. I value your responses, Dov, and look forward to yours and all the others responses. Kol Tuv.