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TOPIC: been doing better, but been better 360 Views

been doing better, but been better 05 Dec 2011 03:18 #127674

  • strugglingandstrivngBT
I cant seem to push more than a week.  I have the little slips and they add up and I have so much tension that I get afraid that I cant make it and fall.  I get so scared that I wont be able to make it or I'll be stuck wanting adn I give in.  How do I make it past that point.  How do I tell myself it will be ok and push onward.  and how do I stop the small slips.  I have a really strong filter system up but I'm constantly trying to sneak past it adn that itself builds up the pressure.  I need to stop.  im ready.  now what? and when it builds up what do I do?
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Re: been doing better, but been better 05 Dec 2011 06:08 #127678

  • aamallen
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First of all kol hakavod for getting through one week at a time - its not easy especially when you are struggling

How are you doing with the GYE handbooks - have you reviewed the material in there

filters ??

More than that you need to work on positive avodas hashem every day rather than just worry about staying away from the bad stuff.  Kind of like college students who go on a shabbton and decide to keep shabbos becuase they liked the cholent
you need to fill you time and your days with positive emunah building experiences such that you not thinking as much about the temptations
becuase just sitting idle and worrying about falling will lead you to fall out of anything better to do
perhaps describe your anxiety a bit more
remember you are not alone and posting and staying in touch is key
best of luck
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Re: been doing better, but been better 05 Dec 2011 13:58 #127709

  • chaimyakov
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If the filter doesn't help then maybe it is time for some accountability software.  Who would you disappoint the next time you fall?  Make them the administrator.
Hatzlacha in all things GOOD.
chaimyakov
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Re: been doing better, but been better 05 Dec 2011 16:46 #127731

  • Hashem Yaasfeni
Dear struggling,

Its really very simple. If you keep walking on the edge of the cliff you are bound to fall every so often.  You need to be walking on the other side of the road so even if you move down a little you are still safe.

This is whats called Gedarim, boundaries. As Reb Dovy says in his weekday classes, once you are in front of the computer, you have LOST YOUR BECHIRA. You are no longer able to make a choice and will fall.  I for one am very careful to stay away from the computer at night or when tired or if I am alone as i dont trust myself. 

It is now easier for me than it was before because I have downloaded the Shmiras eynayim classes you can get them here.  I listen to them when i have free time and it helps keep me focused and stay holy and be kadosh for my wife who has suffered due to my problem in this area. 

I STRONGLY suggest you download some clips and listen on your MP3 player and I am sure it will help you, especially when you may lose focus and become vulnerable.  I can say this is one of the most powerful tools to help you mainly i think because we have little urges in the back of our head but when we have the holy and loving voice of Dovy he replaces any thoughts of falling.  Just try it for a week and see how that goes and let me know. 

GYE has given us many tools to help us out of this mess. WE have no more excuses !!!! Its up to you if you have the will to do it.

You certainly need to install the filters and reporting software as well.

You can download the Shmiras eynayim clips here:
guardyoureyes.com/live/component/zoo/item/windows-of-the-soul-group

With love and support,

HY
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Re: been doing better, but been better 05 Dec 2011 23:42 #127779

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Hashem Yaasfeni wrote on 05 Dec 2011 16:46:

GYE has given us many tools to help us out of this mess. WE have no more excuses !!!! Its up to you if you have the will to do it.



I agree. I think that the willingness to be sexually sober (which means no sex with self) is the first ingredient in the mix of great tools available here. But no one can make another use these tools, if the person himself is not willing.
Hatzlocho.
Baby steps.
If the road is pulling you down, it's a sign that you are going uphill, so just press harder on the gas!

Have a great day - unless, of course, you made other plans.
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Re: been doing better, but been better 06 Jan 2012 02:31 #130203

  • Dov
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Another langeh arichus, sorry.

Not to be unsympathetic, but I'd like to share my experience of these steps you refer to and ask if you have these things, or not. While I do that, I will ask myself the same question. Here goes:

The first step is a simple and sincere acceptance of my inherent and total inability to succeed at beating this addiction and for me to succeed managing my life, in general.

Do you have that? If you (really are an addict but) do not have that step, then where do you get the idea that you really need G-d? From a sefer? Does the sefer need G-d, or do you? And if you really do not come to the real conclusion that you really can't make it without Him, then why do you assume that you will end up depending on Him, either? Because it is a mitzvah to daven? The siddur may depend on him - but the only real issue is: do you?

The way we use to come to this is by writing down (by hand) exactly what we did - what we do - when we use sex and lust. To see in writing, before our very eyes how many times, years, and cycles we have been through this and what it has wrought on our lives. Not emotionally, but practically.

We write the first memorable time we discovered the precious poisonous gold of lust excitement, and record every way we used it and as best as we can how many times we did - till the last time we struggled with it. No causes, no reasons. Brains out, facts in. Once that writing is done, we will have some clarity about how and to what extent we are dependent on lust in order to live. To make it realer and stick better, we share it with another (safe) person, openly and all it's detail. Sharing the truth about ourselves with another real person is the only way for chronic liars (as we all are, living the double life of the ben Torah who desperately porns out and masturbates) to become honest with ourselves.

Recovery is not 'a religion', nor a cult. Contrary to what I see on GYE sometimes, there is no 'mitzvah' for every guy who has a normal yetzer hora for sexual stuff to 'finally believe that he is an addict', nor is there any Cool-aid being given out here! If you are not an addict, then writing it all down will convince you that you are indeed not an addict, after all! No matter what some have told you, this step is not 'normal yiddishkeit' and it is not 'required mentality' for all good Jews. We can safely assume that most people make mistakes in this area - even do aveiros sometimes - yet can control sexual lust in their lives as well as the next guy, and probably can do a decent job managing their own lives.

The second step is coming to admit that if we could be habitually and reliably running to the sweetness of the porn and the power of the fantasy - as we do - it proves that we do not yet really have a G-d that works for us. If we have discovered in our 1st step that we apparently worship and cleave to (that's deveikus) the power of the 'perfecter' bodies of women (lemoshol), then we may believe in Hashem...but where and what is He for us? The thing we have on the pedestal in our hearts is a naked woman, not Him. Does He share the pedestal with a porn starlet? No. Shituf is not for Jews, and that's what this is. It does not work. Addicts are true pos'chim al shtei has'ipim.

So this is not just a religious problem - it is a sanity problem. Truly making a woman (among other weak and helpless things) a Higher Power for us? It's cracked. And yet it is in us - it's the truth about us sex and lust addicts. Hence, the 2nd step is about choosing a useful Higher Power instead of the one we already really have. it is about finally choosing one that works. Like the G-d, for example. In His Torah He calls Himself "Eil" - that means "Power". And "Eil Elyon", means Higher Power. But I digress...

Now, we must be running after these images and people for a reason. It's not only because it's fun. It is dependence. I chase after it and it preoccupies me. Pathetic and nutty as it is. The reason me and the other the addicts among us are here is not just because we are doing aveiros, but because we are obsessed with our temptations, right? Correct? It is taking over, sometimes slowly, sometimes not so slowly.

Hey - but that is what your G-d is supposed to do: take over your life. Deveikus is supposed to be an obsession. "b'ahavasah tishgeh tomid!" - The RMb"M compares deveikus baShem directly to a man's obsession with a woman he is in love with. Smart man, the RMb"M...

So how could I - a frum yid - come to be doveik to sweet porn? Gevalt. I do not know, but it happened. Here I am...here we are.

I do not need an answer - I need acceptance (see AA page 417 to the end - and the story attached to it is very kedai)! That is a huge fact for me.

The G-d - that is, the concept of Hashem that I came into recovery with - does not work for me. If it did, then I could never have gotten that screwed up in the first place. It was posul. I could not have - and still cannot - possibly depend on a G-d who is always ready to hurt me.

Onesh? Does Hashem ever really 'punish' anyone to hurt them for the bad they have done - we have done? Ever? Before we try to answer that, let me just say that you and I both know that if Whoever we call 'G-d' actually hurts or damages anyone, then we will be better off depending on the naked actress' image, no? C'mon, I'd rather depend on orgasm, no? It's always nice...unlike what we called 'G-d'. At least the girlies can be depended upon to give just what I ask for - and she always accepts me and even wants me desperately, doesn't she? Aren't they more dependable than that G-d is? Can't I just use them to tailor my experience and control exactly how I feel - by searching for the just-right image of the right type of mishega'as. It's got it all. And best of all, I don't need to deserve it! A mechayeh.

. And if we have this belief in us, we will be among those who say "I have a big problem with G-d: trusting G-d, using G-d," etc. We will have a very hard time with our 3rd step. Actually, it will not work, at all.

This is a serious problem that even good, frum Jews - even Rabbis - have with their own G-d. After all, the only thing that really makes Hashem really relevant is that He is our own G-d. That we can say "Elohai", is all there really is to a yiddishkeit that works. In His Torah, G-d tells us the reason He took us out of Egypt was "lihyos lochem leilokim." So you could say "Elohai", and mean it for yourself.

And what makes Hashem our own G-d - Elokeinu - is not Him, but what is in our heads and hearts. G-d identified as 'Hashem/Havayo"h' means little indeed, practically nothing, actually. Elokeinu is where everything 'happens' - that is, Malchus. Ba'al kol hakochos kulam - our true, chosen Higher Power. The what the word means to me and you that is the only thing that matters in the quality of the relationship. Twisting Chaza"ls to paint a vicious god who hates those who hate him and who slaps and hurts and kills in order to 'make a point', is as rampant in our hearts as it is stupid. And it is among us and our parents, and our children. R"l.

In the second step we accept that there is something big lacking in us. Not in G-d, but in us. Our expectationsof G-d, of people, and of life, are all twisted. As we discovered in #1, something is definitely wrong with us. The G-d of our our misunderstanding was not enough for us. If he was, then we'd have been OK without getting on our knees to masturbate to the 'powerful woman-gods' of our porn. We had to resort to 'doctoring life up' for what it was missing by taking things into our own hands and self-pleasuring. Playing G-d just a little bit. Manipulating people and circumstances to make it run 'right'. On the way, we put sex with our wives on a high pedestal. Put forbidden and attractive, really attractive, women on a higher pedestal. Put our egos (approval-seeking, what we like to call "love") - on a higher pedestal....along with a few other things. His Will for us as individuals - that is, not the Torah, but the life He gave us - was never good enough, never acceptable to us as it was. And if we stay the way we were when we came to recovery, it never will be!

We addicts tend to be constantly self-absorbed. Even our avodas Hashem is really all about us, what we achieve, and where we are 'holding', and what G-d thinks of us right now. Sex with our wives is a project for addicts...very serious, very important - to us. Our wives try hard to fit into our experience, but often just cannot seem to make it, and they know it. We often sincerely blame them for not being 'sexual enough'. Gevalt. They want to have pleasure and fun. But we are busy having our big adventure - it has to match up with our porn fantasies of how it's supposed to be, doesn't it? Our poor wives haven't got a chance. No wonder they are so often turned off to it, by now! Even Yitzchok the amud haDon knew that sex is supposed to be fun and not a big, giant deal: "Yitzchok metzachek es Rivka ishto"...and our wives know it, too. But for us addicts, it must be all about us and our experience of it. Very important indeed, hmmm. And we react to it as frum addicts: by getting even more serious about it, "ke'ilu k'fa'o shade!", or by making it a deep spiritual meaningful event. Doesn't usually work for regular yidden - but we think it aught to work for us - of all people!!?? Hubris. Gayvoh. Nothing else that arrogance. Being normal is so possul to us. But in truth, sexual intimacy with our spouse is supposed to be a nice experience, one of simcha and Shalom, as the Zohar hakadosh puts it - not a big, serious and important 'event' or project. Gevalt. But I digress...

So you are working the steps. Do you have any of these steps? If so, then that's great. If you see the steps completely differently, why not share about it? Let's talk it out and maybe we will both learn a lot.

Hatzlocha!!
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: been doing better, but been better 06 Jan 2012 03:35 #130208

  • strugglingandstrivngBT
I've never officially worked the steps.  I have nothing to share in that regard.  However, I do have an image of Hashem that I I feel I misplaced.  He used to be a support to me, a feeling of well being.  When I felt close to Him I felt happy and sure of myself, and when I felt far I would get depressed.  I even doubted He was there. it was very emotional.  He was the Force that ensured my good deeds could be done, that my intentions could be carried out.  He kept me safe and able to do mitzvos so that I could grow closer to Him.  I could feel myself thirsting for Him sometimes, for His Torah, for davening.  He didnt want me to act out because it would seperate me from Him, and I would suffer.  He didnt want me to suffer.  Then I lost that.  I started acting out again.  I wanted that quick good feeling.  You see that feeling of being close to Hashem is similar to an orgasm on some level, however when I am close to Hashem I do more good, and when I am far I do more bad.  It was very cause and effect.  I went through a lot of struggling a year ago to stop and I finally did.  Then this summer I started again.  I started because I wasnt feeling that closeness, I was stressed.  I was worried and seeing a lot of pritzus and made me want more.  eventually I got the courage (or maybe the opposite of courage) to cross the boundaries of what was acceptable and actually look at porn.  Once I crossed that line it was much easier to do it again, and again.  I hated it, but I loved the feeling more.  even though I felt like hell the next day.  and here I am.  A few days ago I fell after a month of clarity, of committment.  I learned how to bypass my fences.  Now I am doubting Hashem was ever there.  I know that it is not that He WAS never there, its that I AM not there.  I tried to replaced porn with other sites.  I allowed myself to indulge too much in nostalgia.  Yesterday I went to my old house, a place I thought I would never return.  I missed the feeling of beginings of teshuva, when I felt so close to Hashem.  I saw my ex's sister.  I was so confused.  I literally felt like my soul was trying to escape my body.  There is so much pain in my past and I just covered it up, I never dealt with it.  By believing Hashem was running the show I didnt have to, I was ok with everything that happened because it got me to a higher level.  See, the whole reason I started overusing porn was to quench feelings of loneliness after my breakup.  But with a new relationship with the hamelech malechai hamlachim I didnt need it, I wanted it.  So once I got over the want I was in the clear.  Now I started needing it again, because I lost a firm grip over my faith.  I started doubting again, and I feel empty.  Once I started, it was so hard to stop.  I get trapped in these periods of darkness.  I get confused.  Right now I am avoiding porn still.  But I am not any closer to Hashem.  I am so pained by that.  My therapist said that if I dont find a replacement for dealing with my stress I would end up back acting out.  He was right.  I didnt find a replacement for my stress.  Obviously we want to have a relationship with Hashem negate the need for a replacement for stress.  But I am not there yet, or anymore.  That kills me even more.  My falls are because its easier to fall than face that I am not there anymore.  Its easier to deny than to build up the courage to face the fact that I need to start working again.  That I need to get rid of my expectations for life and accept what I can understand about it, and figure out what it means to accept the observations that I desire when they are in fact the case, but not because I want them to be the case but because they are the case.  Accept that I will not and cannot understand everything, that Hashem is beyond my comprehension.  Thats really hard to do.  I also have to accept that I have to become rehumbled to what I want, which is very strange.  I want to believe, but I have to. I have to accept that I have to.  not want to.  I'm not really sure the purpose of this.  maybe I'm trying to work some of this now.  maybe I just needed to vent.  Sorry if its a bit stream of conciousness.  thanks for listening....
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Re: been doing better, but been better 06 Jan 2012 14:31 #130239

  • Hashem Yaasfeni
Perhaps this will help:  Im not sure where this fits in, maybe the site can be part of GYE's links and resources but i just read this article...

If it helps somebody then Baruch Hashem,

Las Vegas Therapist Launches Website Focused on Treating Por**graphy Addiction and M*****tion Addiction

www.digitaljournal.com/pr/540165

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Re: been doing better, but been better 08 Jan 2012 00:31 #130295

  • Dov
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strugglingandstrivngBT wrote on 06 Jan 2012 03:35:
My falls are because its easier to fall than face that I am not there anymore.  Its easier to deny than to build up the courage to face the fact that I need to start working again.  That I need to get rid of my expectations for life and accept what I can understand about it, and figure out what it means to accept the observations that I desire when they are in fact the case, but not because I want them to be the case but because they are the case.  Accept that I will not and cannot understand everything, that Hashem is beyond my comprehension.  Thats really hard to do.  I also have to accept that I have to become rehumbled to what I want, which is very strange.  I want to believe, but I have to. I have to accept that I have to.  not want to.  I'm not really sure the purpose of this.  maybe I'm trying to work some of this now.  maybe I just needed to vent.  Sorry if its a bit stream of conciousness.  thanks for listening....


Did you read the story I suggested you look at in AA yet, chaver? (AA around p 414 - "Acceptance Was The Answer" in the 4th edition) Please read it, especially the last 3 pages of it.

Much love,

Dov
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: been doing better, but been better 10 Jan 2012 03:49 #130433

  • strugglingandstrivngBT
I havent been able to find the piece you asked me to read. 
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Re: been doing better, but been better 10 Jan 2012 17:44 #130467

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It is in the book called "Alcoholics Anonymous", 4th edition, on page 407. The ikkar is the last three pages, but the entire story taken together is the ikkar of the entire program as I know it. Enough without the rest of the book, without anything else. Tremendous.

Can you get that? Or woul you like me to try and cut and paste it here on your thread?
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: been doing better, but been better 10 Jan 2012 18:57 #130472

  • strugglingandstrivngBT
well I looke up the big book last night.  nothing was over 300 or so pages that I could find available online
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Re: been doing better, but been better 11 Jan 2012 00:29 #130519

  • Dov
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Are you sure it was AA's big book? Maybe it was SA's White Book? That is about 230 pages. But AA is 575 pages...except the short version of it that has no member stories printed in the back....

OOhh! Maybe you are looking at the version of "AA" without any of the Member Stories in the back! Try the AA website, or this link right to that page in a PDF:

http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_theystoppedintime16.pdf

Hatzlocha rabboh!!
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: been doing better, but been better 11 Jan 2012 02:20 #130529

  • strugglingandstrivngBT
I read it.  It was powerful, yet I sincerely think there a few differences to my situation.  1. I was told I am not an addict.  I have an assur stress reliever that I cant control.  so while I admit that I am powerless, that  I cant control acting out, I do have some control adn there are lines i absolutely wont cross.  I guess thats the only real difference.  and really its not so different.  Its hard though, because my life is not out of control, as I said, only my spiritual life.  this is a religious addiction.  I'm not 100% sure how to approach getting better.  every time I act out I resolve not to do it again, sometimes shorter, sometimes longer.  but I dont think its healthy to label myself as hopeless without THE 12 steps when I have been told clinicaly that I am not an addict.  I think that is my biggest frusteration, trying to be honest yet honest.  not deny that I have a problem I cant fix alone, yet not brainwash myself into thinking that I am something I am not.  I want to get better, and I would like to join a self help group of guys to do so, but I am not ready, nor may I ever be, to go to an inperson SA meeting.  I just dont think its for me at this stage.  it used to be, but not anymore.  ill talk to someone about it, but I dont think I can handle fgoing to a meeting, nor do I think I can practically get to one at my school.  i dunno. anythoughts?
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Re: been doing better, but been better 11 Jan 2012 14:11 #130555

  • chaimyakov
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Who told you that you are not an addict?
Did you take the test yourself?
My yh told me for at least the last 16 years that it wasn't an addiction just a little tiny insignificant control issue that would be easily overcome if i just tried a little harder and gave a bit more effort.  BALONEY!!!!!!!
If you truly aren't addicted i don't know what to say to help you other than that i will pray for your shleimus.
Hatzlacha in all things GOOD.
chaimyakov
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