Friends,

How is it possible that I am in the mood, I know its assur, yet I end up masturbating. BH i've been clean for over 6 weeks now, but im afarid that ill fall like so many hundreds of times before. I'd just start innocently itching and before I know it I have a full blown tayva and as I am doing it I know I will regret it, but I still do it. Any suggestions?

I guess that the ability to stop doesnt have to do so much with issur and heter, maybe if you focused more on how masturbating and letting lust control your life makes your life unmanageable you will have more success.  Putting aside the issur why do you want to stop?

seconding urajew: knowing it's an Averirah usually won't help and addict. We're haven't been all that religious come to think of it...
Calm down and ask yourself one question: "do I want to stop?". If the answer is "no" then there is no issue. You want to do it, so do it. But if the answer is "yes, I want to stop", we must come to the conclusion that you want one thing and your body wants another. In order for YOU to win, you need to put up some fences make sure to stay away from temptations.

Love,

KH

Thanks, I hear you.
Maybe you can help my thought process. If masturbating were not an avera, would you suggest I stop, or aderaba, do it!

kidushashem wrote on 28 Nov 2011 15:25:


I think the problem for me is that it's not really making my life unmanageable...I don't do it so often and I enjoy it. The only reason I want to stop is because I know it's an avera. So then what's the problem?

excuse the harshn tone but sometimes thats all that seems to get through to me so maybe its worth sharing a lil too.

things dont have to get unmanagable for them to be worth changing.
just becasue you may not wish to brand yourself an addict doesn't mean that this isn't something worth working on.

i suppose one question worth asking what exactly you expect to get out of life and judaism. what are these commitments worth to you and where do you think u'll best be able to see your goals met. having the big picture attitude is sometimes the best  bit of motivation a person can have through tougher times.

i must say im really impressed with your 6 weeks. i too used to be able to break like you but now i find myself struggling at 5 days. do yourself a favor and try to discover the man behind the facade. take control and view yourself in the light you deserve to be seen in

Knowledge that it's an Aveira is largely academic, the question is, what is wrong with doing the aveira? The answer is, in my opinion, true fear of heaven.

Imagine if your dad or rebbi was standing there right before your face, would you do it? Now thing of this, Hashem, who created you and I, he created everything you see and feel, he created your father and rebbi stands right there, before you and watches everything you do.

More so, he is the one giving you the energy to scratch, and even once you do the act, the energy is his, so in summary: he stands directly before you, knows your thoughts, feelings, and intentions, and you use the energy he gives you to disobey his own directives. More so you are dragging your neshama, whis is an essential part of Hashem into the muck..

It's embarrassing if you think about it. This is something I try to meditate on daily, to the extent possible, to integrate it, make it so real, really feel it.. In my experience, mikvah helps, reading kerias Shema before bed with lots of concentration helps.

Another thing that can help at the moment of urge, is to say the verse 'Shema yisroel'. Memorizing the pitum haketores and saying it at moments of challenge can help..

Some practical tips,

Have a treadmill in your room, or at home, and start running as soon as you feel the urge.

Put on loud music.

Soak your feet in cold water

(Or call the simcha squad  )

These are not solutions, this are emergency interventions. The real solutions are in deep internal change, reference all the Dov material for that.

The above - remembering Hashem's precense, is to deter us from the act. We need to adjust the medidation after a fall G-d forbid.. When we fall, we should remember Hashem is with us now, in the muck, as he was with us before, he loves us as he did before, most important - he embraces us upon our return as he did before, regardless of how many times we have fallen..

The yetzer hara is a master. If you feel down or depressed after the aveira, or at any time you think of a past aveira, then know, beyond a shadow of doubt that the yetzer hara is the source of your thoughts. The logic is simple, if you are depressed, you need to feel better, which results in another fall, etc.

Unplanned, sudden, melancholy or depression over past sin is not teshuva, and is always the work of the yetzer. He will do what he can to pull you down.

People have lots of misconceptions about this, and as a result walk around depressed, slip, and fall. True teshuva means to simply say to Hashem 'I regret what I did, and accept not to do it again' that is teshuva. Yes it is that simple. (everything else, fasting, tefilos, tikunim, and the like are for cleansing the stain on the soul, not for teshuva, and should likely be avoided prior to stability and sobriety, and be performed under direction of a Rabbi who understands addiction). The highest level of teshuva to increase our Torah learning, to add a shiur, even a few minutes extra daily. Many people misunderstand teshuva, and fall further as a result of what they precieve to be "teshuva".. I should write a teshuva handbook to explain this, maybe when I have some time..

Bottom line be besimcha, in your original post  sounds like you are depressed, put on the music, start the first dance, and when done, start the second dance, have the main course and dance some more.. By the time you are done you will be to tired and happy to scratch 

As Rabbi Dr. Twerski likes to quote 'ki besimcha tseutseiu' simcha can help us exit any situation.

Chazak my brother.

DON'T WORRY, BE HAPPY, BE STRONG, YES YOU CAN

shkoyach stoppinforever. that was really refreshing. the idea of meditating on that idea truly does make yira more real.

on the note of balancing yira and ahava i once heard a great mashal (in line with SF) about a shartk yid who went off the derech post holocaust. drunk, dreadlocks,  non-jewish gf, tie died shirt the whole 9 yards. he had thought his family dead and had taken on the lifestyle of a loner.

after many years of not seeing his father, he happens to find himself walking down the street when he sees a man he recognized wearing a tall streimel, long bekeshe and curly pais. it was his father!

on the one hand he felt like running into his fathers arms! but upon looking at his tatered clothing and lifestyle he was hesitant. Approaching his dad, he was overcome with both embarrasment/fear and incredible love.

it is possible to experience both emotions simultaneously

Thank you confidence, I like that.

newavraham wrote on 29 Nov 2011 01:07:


If masturbating were not an Aveira, I would ask you the same question: do you want to stop? If you don't want to stop (even deep down), don't. If you do want to stop deep down but it's hard, then figure out why you want to stop, make it really clear for yourself and keep repeating those reasons to yourself every time you get an urge. In addition, put up stage-appropriate fences (for example: in the stage of first 2 weeks: no internet at all, 2-8 weeks: 20 minutes of handbooks a day+limited time on filtered internet etc.) 

neshamatehora wrote on 29 Nov 2011 03:45:


Just saying "it's an Aveira" is really shallow, so of course it doesn't help you. What does that mean to you? Imagine you are speaking to a goy and you need to explain to him why you don't do P&M. You have to explain about Hashem, Torah, what place it has in your life, etc. Only then will he understand what an Aveira is.
So do just that; explain to the goy inside of you what "it's an Aveira" means. If you do a bad job, he's just gonna laugh at you and pull you down.
It's hard work and it will take time to really feel that inside of you. Most people on this forum are probably not holding there.
But in addition, you can just bring into your awareness the damage that P&M has done and is doing to you even though you only do it rarely. I'm pretty sure that even if you do it rarely, you still realize how it has made you insensitive to spirituality. It's a very painful thing to realize how desensitized to Higher things we've become through these habits. I'm sure you've realized that P&M has caused you to withdraw from family and possibly lie and keep dark secrets from people.
I'm sure these nasty habits have damaged your self esteem and self image.
You can read some horror stories on GYE and see where this habit has gotten people. You'll realize soon enough how damaging this is for you.

What I'm trying to say overall is that you have to be aware. Be aware that you might have been living a very shallow Judaism (like I was) without too much meaning and personal connection. And be aware of all those emotions and negative traits that you may have and which may have been caused by these bad habits.

Awareness and living in the moment (one day at a time) are key to success.

I did not reed all the replys but what you are saying is, I am a addict, so welcom home we all know it's bad and we can not help our selves only with other powers so let's go together will Win.

No avera?, do it. Its healthy.

1- For this guy it's 'healthy' - it is good for him and his life, he says.

2- For this guy it is evil, a real problem because it's assur.

3- For another guy it is too bad, but a freebie because he is an adidct.

Gevalt, is this a buffet?

I thought people were coming here to get a problem solved, not to write a new hagadah shel pesach.

This is all dumb philosophizing. Truth is beyond us, and when it is before us, we do not listen anyhow, so it's irrelevant. What is relevant is what is this doing to me and why we take a vacation from it - yet always predictably come back to the porn, the unzipping the pants, and the masturbating ourselves. It is pathetic, but nu - is it a problem for you, or for me, or is it not? That is the only question. Do you want to stop? Not does the Torah want to stop - you won't listen just as you never have! But just like all the many goyim I know is sexual recovery from porn and mastubation: do they want to stop - do you? It is the only question. And no one can make your mind up for you. Either you are finished, had enough fake sex and orgasms...or you want some more.

The door to recovery is open. But it takes a motivation that cannot be supplied by anyone, even G-d. Ein hadovor tolui ella bee. That is not referring to stopping - just to quitting, giving it up for now, for today.

Too sleepy gotta go, head spinning from medication now, good night, chabibi,

Though you often sound like one who just wants excuses to porn out better, I still Love you a lot,

- Dov