Striving, you have totally missed my point. Considering your name, I will give you the benefit of a doubt and say you did it unintentionally.
strivingforhonesty wrote on 16 Nov 2011 17:29:

Anecdotal evidence doesn't impress me. Just because someone asked a bunch of his friends whether they masturbate or not, does not take away the fact, that millions of men who do not masturbate are on the verge of dying from built-up sexual tension. If you want numbers, just figure out how many people went through SA in the decades of its existence around the globe, and are now free from "having sex with themselves", as according to SA's definition of sobriety. And that's just people who had a real problem to begin with.
Just because there are couples who swap partners or engage in other sexually deviant activity or fetishism, doesn't mean that a Jewish Orthodox forum should condone this behavior or justify it as " whatever makes you happy, as long as you're honest".
Read through the posts on this website and see how many marriages and relationships have been ruined by masturbation, and that's just a sampler of what goes on out there.
Of course, I am talking about compulsive/addictive behavior (as I stressed in my post and as you missed), but if one feels that they NEED to masturbate or ELSE, maybe we are not talking about a "normal human urge", afterall.
The biggest issue with your post is just that: "positive masturbation", "good masturbation" etc. I think the name of your game is denial, and not intellectual honesty.
You are trying to convince alcoholics that their biggest issue is hangover, not drinking.
There isn't one aspect of masturbation that is good or positive, addict or not.
But for an addict, to get into a mindset that "I'll just masturbate less, and I will do it with positive attitude" is certain death.
Please consider that if you feel unable to go on living without masturbating "twice a week", that your issue may be a little bigger than sexual frustration, that perhaps you worship a god of orgasm before you worship the Creator of Heaven and Earth.
I am not saying that you should go into a clinical depression over this. There are ways to deal with guilt and shame within the framework of Toiro. But not to dress it into obscure clothing of the good Dr. and her understanding of R. Tzadok.
As a side note, I guess I used too strong of a language to underscore that today there isn't a school of thought that bases their hashkofo on R. Tzadok's writings alone. But of course he was a venerable sage, and a true Oived Hashem.
B'Hashgocho Protis, here is a list of excuses from Chizik Email for anyone who feels that they NEED to masturbate, and that we are too hard on them.
Use in good health, and may G-d help you.

• If I am the only one awake at 1 AM, it's not hurting anyone


• If I fantasize, it stops me from real-life acting out


• Everybody flirts anyway


• It hurts to hold back/I need to release tension


• It's just too hard to stop/I've been doing it too long


• It's not a betrayal of love


• I just want to check my email


• It won't happen today


• I won't happen again today


• It won't happen before our phone meeting


• I feel so great after the meeting, it won't happen afterward


• I can use the internet by myself, I am not weak willed


• No one will know


• Acting out does not affect my tefilah


• Acting out does not impinge on my love of life, positive attitude, simchas ha'Chaim


• I am not holy enough to fight back yet, one day I will be there


• It just feels so good


• I need it


• I will change tomorrow, just not now


• I am in control


• I have a better plan


• I have a better plan


• I have a better plan


• I am the director, I can make anything happen when I want


• I am normal


• I am not an addict, I'm not like him, I'm not like them.  If I'm an addict, people will look down on me


• I will go through the 12 steps and THEN be in control


• It's not the worst addiction out there


• I am strong enough to stop


• I, I, I.

strivingforhonesty wrote on 16 Nov 2011 22:02:


strivingforhonesty = Striving for honesty!

"With thine self be truthful"



WE must know where are at; what we think.


Being honest & truthful does not always mean that we are correct....... (That was a nasty thing to post! Moderators, please remove this post!!!!)

strivingforhonesty wrote on 16 Nov 2011 22:02:

This is classic.
There is nothing in between compulsive masturbation and ending one's life?
Well, you're in good company. Myself, and a bunch of other goofballs here felt exactly the same for many years.
Stick around, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

strivingforhonesty wrote on 16 Nov 2011 22:02:


How about starting with the attitude tips, found in the GYE Handbook (linked in every Chizuk e-mail)?  It will give you a very good perspective on this struggle, and is, for the most part, appropriate for non-addicts as well.

By the way, I assume from everything you wrote that you don't use pornography (or even immodest pictures) to get aroused, which would have no justification whatsoever even according to the arguments you presented.

I have not watched porn in about 3  years ever since I started seeing masturbation as a positive form of sexuality.
obormottel- me and you are from different planets so there is no point in getting in to a whole debate.
I wish you success and happiness

Kedusha, that hand book has that video "the seal of truth" as a link, if there is anything that would make me take off my kippa chas veshalom, it is that movie, the guy in the film had not even heard of teffilin, and yet he gets tortured for masturbating! Where is justice? Where is truth? 

Anyway if everyone here thinks I'm a heretic, I will have to learn to live with that, at least I will try and be a dignified heretic, I will try and be a heretic that's a mench!

I can see that that video would not be helpful for many people.  I personally was not able to watch more than a couple of minutes.  If you don't like it, try to forget about it.

If you don't arouse yourself with porn, you are at least being consistent, if not correct.  But, keep in mind that, for most people, porn and masturbation go together.

strivingforhonesty wrote on 16 Nov 2011 22:56:

• I, I, I.

:-* Love always. See you down the road, whenever you decide to get off your planet and get down to Earth.

Dear SouthafricanJEW, happygrowth, confusedyid, londonbocher, Strivingforhonesty, BaalTeshuvah and Tryingtolive,

You have been on this forum and on GYE for long enough, in enough "gilgulim". (See some first correspondence over here: www.guardureyes.com/GUE/RTwerski/Can'tStop.asp)

Maybe it's time to find somewhere else to hang out?

It's not acceptable to post an article from Rav Tzadok (as strivingforhonesty), and then use a different username (tryingtolive) to say that you're new here and you read that post and it saved your life, and then use a third username (baalteshuvah) to post an open letter to GYE about how "pained you are" that the article was removed. That's not exactly striving-for-honesty, is it?

I have a feeling that your guilt is causing you to do these sneaky things, to try and convince yourself and others and that your approach is correct.

Strangely though, you're the only one who keeps coming back with these same mantras... I haven't heard anyone else on this forum espouse such views...

I wish you a lot of Hatzlacha elsewhere.

Wow guard: that was amazing