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TOPIC: . 1346 Views

. 07 Aug 2009 06:00 #11178

  • MaalinBKodesh
Last Edit: 17 May 2010 06:26 by .

Re: Chitzyonius affecting the pnimiyus....... 07 Aug 2009 11:36 #11197

  • the.guard
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I have seen this already a number of times in my work and on this forum, how sweet holy Jewish boys like you, start to change their outward appearance. And it really DOES help them A LOT!! As the Chassidim say, the outward affects the inward... The way you look outside is also a REFLECTION of what you look like - or WANT to look like - inside.

Not for nothing Hashem says by the Mitzva of Tzitzis, "u'reisem oso uzechartem es KOL MITZVOS HASHEM. Tzitzis is keneged all the mitzvos!

May Hashem be with you, surround you, and inside of you!
Webmaster of - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
Last Edit: by WhyIFight.

Re: Chitzyonius affecting the pnimiyus....... 07 Aug 2009 11:46 #11201

  • Uri
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Thank you maalin for the most deep and thoughtful intake on this topic.It is one that I still have much confusion about,for we see many well dressed pple acting like they shouldnt soemtimes.And also it puts alot of pressure on the person.Everything must be done slowly in steps(according to personal standards of course)
Having said that,i would just like to add that i am basically one of the only black and white guys in my whole neighborhood(ive basically lost all anonymity at this point)
my family is modern and i went through a long path to where i am at now including of course in outward appearance.
what i have learned from it is that pple really judge your growth by your outside,and therefore you really must must take things slow(if its not too late for that yet).why?because its much easier and faster to grow on the outside than on the inside.
With wishes for a gevaldige relaxing shabbos-Uri
Last Edit: by ClinicCom.

Re: Chitzyonius affecting the pnimiyus....... 07 Aug 2009 18:18 #11223

  • Pintele Yid
Maalin Bkodesh,

It is sacrifices like these that will bring Moshiach. I am sure that you are one of the favorite topics of conversation in your shule... especially from folks who wish on the inside to be as courageous as you.

I graduated from no beard to a trimmed beard to a full beard. One of the reasons I grew the full bear was that before Norelco, all Yidden had full beards.

I am a salesman and attend conferences. I have been in my industry for many years and for whatever it is worth, I am part "of the gang". The other reason why I wanted to grow the beard was to stop the "physical" commraderie that results from being part of the gang. I have had many Nisyonos as a result of my job - some I passed, others I failed, but once I stopped feeling bad for myself that I had to deal with this garbage, my average got much better.

Just recently, my boss demanded that I trim my beard. He felt that it was a hinderance to making new sales. I asked my Rav, Rav Moshe Wolfson,  if I should quit my job. I was hoping he would say yes so I can learn full time He told me that since today people are overloaded with Nisyonos, I should trim it, (using Halachikly permitted means), and not add another Nisayon on my plate.

Enough about me. The main point that I was hoping to communicate was that in today's enironment, you got to try almost everything against the Y"H. If it works, great. If not, move onto something else. The great thing about GYE is the wealth of information found here.

It seems like you found one very powerful weapon in your arsenal. Hashem should help you find others that will enable your Pnimius to be in concert with your Chitzonius.

Pintele Yid

Last Edit: by levtahor21.

Re: Chitzyonius affecting the pnimiyus....... 07 Aug 2009 19:10 #11224

  • Kedusha
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Dear Maalin,

It is well-accepted that Chitzoniyus can affect Penimiyus (there are surely sources for this concept, which I don't have handy).

However, I believe that you should take it slow and avoid extremes as much as possible.  Based on your past Nisyonos, I understand why you are doing this.  But be careful.  Often, radical changes like these are not sustainable, and then the person drops both the Chitzoniyus and the Penimiyus, c"v.  You may need to gradually cut back on the Chitzoniyus, but be careful that you retain what you've gained in Penimiyus. 

Another thing to consider: unless you're becoming Chassidish, a shaved head may cause you unnecessary difficulties with Shidduchim.

As much as possible, the goal is to be normal - the happy medium, as per the Rambam.  Sometimes it is necessary to go to extremes temporarily, as the Rambam acknowledges.  But for the long term, it is important to be normal for your community.  I say this with an important caveat: I don't mean to do Issurim, if that's considered "normal."  But, within the bounds of Torah observance, being normal is very important.  It is the first thing I want to know regarding potential shidduchim for my children (I'm not quite there yet, but, IY"H, it's not that far off).  Rav Moshe Meir Weiss makes this point frequently in his Shiurim - that Rav Moshe Feinstein, ZT"L, was the Gadol Hador, but, at the same time, he was completely normal, and that normality is the first thing to look for in Shidduchim. 

Just as an alcoholic needs to avoid that first sip, a lust addict needs to avoid that first slip.Slip today? No way! ;)Fall today? No way, Jose'!
Last Edit: by Yehuda1199.

Re: Chitzyonius affecting the pnimiyus....... 09 Aug 2009 04:28 #11265

  • Pintele Yid
Tayara Tayara Maalin BKodesh,

Kedusha makes a great point.

You have to understand where you want to end up. Make sure that you will be interested in the girls that are interested in boys that look like you. (I hope that makes sense)

I am in no way telling you to change anything you are doing - just to refelect on Kedushas words. If you feel that your target shidduch aligns with your outside look, then Kol Hakovod - Keep on Trucking

BTW, I reread my first post to you and realized that the reason for telling you my story was "Iker Chosom Min Hasefer". I wanted to point out that I understand your discomfort from being the target of people staring and talking about you. I live in Boro Park where many to most Yidden have full beards. I remmember going to the Mikvah with my 7 year old, and a Bochur who knows me looked at me and couldn't stopped staring. Even my son made a remark that "Tatty, he is staring at you. It is because you cut your beard". Others who actually felt more Heimish with me came over and asked what happened - but not all.

No matter what you end up doing, I just want to express how blown away I am with someone who will go through something like this for the sake of Kedusha. Even if you end up somewhere in the middle, your Korbo Olah will always be burning on the Mizba'ach shel Maloh.

Hakodosh Baruch Hu, Alecha Horagnu Kol Hayom!

Pintele Yid
Last Edit: by tahara5775.
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