Hi guys

My name is net, i use to post alot on the forum last year and things have really changed i can see.

I've read some of the posts and seen that alot of the people here have similar issues to me, something which wasnt the case a year ago.

I really want to start keeping up with the forum, a hachloto i took up after a recent fall.

I feel bad for posting, because of some suggestions that guard gave me personally which i didn't follow up, because i didn't think that it would be appropriate. Either way, with the help of a mentor here called battleworn, I've changed alot over the past couple of months and I've really come to think deeply about the issue.

This past week was pretty wild, i slipped up a whole bunch of times, i set myself a goal of only once a week which was kinda working.
I spoke to my father about my problem and he disconnected the internet from the computer.

I don't think that's a solution, but it definitely helps. I'm doing a computer course now and on the side we get a whole bunch of junk mail at home in Australia from department stores, so if i really want to go and see things, I could just go into the street and take one from my neighbor, so its impossible to completely take away the option of doing it, its always gonna be there, thats what i've realised, the change has to come from within me.

I've realized that before i slip up, there are usually a couple of things happening
a) I'm usually depressed, or worked up about something and mausterbating and looking at things always calms me down ,it's an amazing escape for when I'm feeling down.
b)I always get anxious afterwards and feel like crap, and become very tired. i get very close to panic attacks sometimes, which is really hard for me considering i have a problem with anxiety.
c)i always forget how crap i feel afterwards before ive actually done it. i can only think of how good it feels to wank.

I've realised that i need to keep away from certain situations.
a)movies, a no-no for me, i get really distracted.
b)facebook, when i look at the pictures of my sister and her freinds who are one year younger than me, i feel like i just wanna get married already so i can have a relationship and and feel like i have more support.
c)computer by myself.

I wanted to know what you guys think about marriage, it's been on my mind lately, i turned 20 in iyar, i don't feel ready to get married necessarily emotionally, im in the middle of a course and i dont know what my parents would say, they think that im immature.
But on the other hand, ive got this high sex drive, i don't know what to do.

Anyway, I'm gonna keep in touch with ya guys on the forum, ive realised how much i need it.

Cheers
Net

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Welcome back Net!!
Firstly,you told your father?!Thats pretty intense dude.Its one thing your wife,but your father?Crazy!I dont know where you got the courage to do that.Could I borrow some?
I also really connect with your causes of acting out.I have gone through periods of suffering from anxiety and I always felt much more relaxed and secure as I acted out and afterwards for a shrot spell.
I came to the realization though,that the anxiety was caused in part to a deep loneliness in me that needed comfort and when it wasnt filled I felt so fragile.Could be maybe that you have this a bit too?I have no idea.im just saying what i found myself(with a proffesional therpaist of course)
Marriage in my opinion is a big no-no.There is a strong lack of security in us addicts that our wifes will never be able to fill.No one can fill this void except us and Hashem(stillworking on understanding this idea ask guard).
bkitzur,im single and foolish and you dont have to take anything i posted at more than a childish view of the world.but i feel you man.thanks for posting.dont leave us again.ever.i like you dude-Uri

I am dedicating today's chizuk e-mail to NET and URI. (#550)

Yeh Hi Uri

I started reading your thread, and I realized that indeed you are very similar to me.

[parts removed by admin because they do not need to be seen by everyone. Net, I'd be happy to discuss the issues with you by e-mail]

I do want to stick around, because like I said, I do believe my frequent but not constant mausterbation and looking at porn is something I dont feel comfortable with, which I do want to cut down, and I also want to deal with the issues behind the urges and stuff, and the loneliness, and it seems like you Uri, are extremely similar to me and I could share alot with you from my experience.

Anyway, its motzei shabbos now, I really dont want to look at porn this week or mausterbate, I haven't had a clean week in ages. I don't believe it's gonna happen without the support form you guys.

Some of the things I'm gonna make sure of this week in order to keep far away from the issue is
a) I'm not gonna go on facebook.
b) I'm not gonna watch T.v. or movies, which, by the way, is probably the hardest things possible, because it's a really good outlet for me, but it's to easy for me to get switched on from it, just by seeing a hot girl on the screen, the urges will come, like for example, now is motzei shabbos, and im SOOOOOOOOOOOO BORED!!!!! its so hard, its the middle of winter here in aus and its a long motzei shabbos, im really not in the mood of learning, and my freind upstairs is watching a geshmake movie. but still.... wha the hell.
c)I'm gonna be careful about when and where! i use the internet. and..
d) I'm gonna try and set up more time to learn
e) im gonna exercise more.

Thats all for now folks..

by the way, Tomim2B I loved ur response it really freshened up my perspective, I really loved it. it's so true.... it made me think about it diff.

Have a GUT VOCH everyone, with MOSHIACH NOW!!!!!!

Net

Net, although I, Dov, Rabbi Twerski and a lot of other addiction therapists disagree with your therapist's point of view (and therefore I removed some things from your post and would be happy to discuss it with you by e-mail), I still want to say that you are ONE AMAZING DUDE!  :D The things you listed that you will be working on, show that your soul is shining bright and your determination to do what is best for your soul - not for your body - is what is leading you.

Two important things I want to mention:

1) I think you should re-evaluate your therapist. If she is not a sex addiction therapist, you are likely wasting your time.

2) As long as you are "struggling" and "fighting" the urges, you will become weary of the fight and give it up. The secret to success, and this is what any addiction therapist will tell you, is to learn the tactics of how to LET GO of lust and stop struggling. These secrets can only be learned in 12-Step groups, and even then, only if you get a sponsor and work the steps honestly. And a good addiction therapist can help you with this as well.

If you disregard what I am telling you in 1 and 2 above, you may end up with lots of "schar" for valiantly fighting the Yetzer Hara, but you'll also likely end up losing the battle in the long term. Sorry for being so harsh, but that is what experience has taught us. If you are not ready to hear what I am telling you now, at least remember it for the future; if c"v lust starts to really destroy your life and you are "hitting bottom", remember that there is hope.

With all my love,
Guard.

Hi Net, and welcome back to the family. 
The above issue that you posed has bothered me for years.  If it it makes me feel so bad afterward, why do I always go back to it? 
I was not the only one this bothered.  Rav Dessler describes the exact same feeling you describe above with regard to smoking addiction (which he had).  He describes how smoking causes immense chest pains.  Every night, as he would experience these pains, he would say that he will never return to his smoking.  But the next day he would 'forget' his pains and falls back into the patter.  And he struggled with this mystery.  Why would he do that.  This single question is what inspired him to write his famous essay on free choice.  And two years after writing this essay, he was finally able to throw away his addiction. If you have a chance, it is is a worthwhile read.  It is not so long.  It can be found in Michtav M'Eliyahu Chelek I, page 111.  Also, take a look at page 79 and 225, if you have a chance. If you substitute the word smoking for p**n, you may relate top what he is saying 100%.

Perhaps, by pondering this question, you will gain proper understanding into your mental self, which hopefully will help you release yourself from this behavior.  Self awareness and self understanding is part of the key that to recovery. 

Regarding your questions about sex addiction.  Your therapist tells you that addiction to p**n is not an addiction. Allow me address this issue. 

Firstly, I agree that the term 'addiction' is overused and abused on this site and other places.  There is lack of proper science and mental health and this causes frustration to many visitors (which has and continues to do so).  There are comparisons to diabetes, which is absurd to anyone that has any knowledge of medicine and science (which I have).

However, read on.

The truth is that the term addiction has a debatable definition.  Is any dependence considered addiction?  Do you need withdrawal symptoms?  What's the difference between OCD and addiction?  Is any lack of self control considered addiction. Do you need a craving? Define Craving.  And the possibilities and debate goes on. 

There are also debates what are the chief causes of addiction.  Is it a physical disease?  Is it  an inborn psychological disorder?  Is a behavioral problem (probably, closest to truth)? Are there neurological explanations to addiction? Are all addictions the same?

Then there are debates about sex addiction and p**n addiction.  Are these REAL addictions.  Which of course gets back to the question what is an addiction.

Perhaps, a good place to start to gain proper understanding is from wikipedia. They have a link there for p**n addiction.  But do not rely on it for all your information.  Look up the sources.

There is a very good book called, "The Brain That Changes Itself", by Norman Doidge.  The book brings down different accounts and discoveries in the field if neuroplasticity. Neuroplasticity is the theory and approach that our brains can always change and we need not settle for today's behavior.  The book is based on true accounts and scientific research using traditional methods of the science. Chapter 4 is devoted to sex and love.  In the middle of chaper 4, he discusses p**n addiction.  He explains that he has worked with many patients who have had this problem.  He points out that there are different types of sex addicts.  But he certainly recognized p**n addiction to be an addiction from a scientific standpoint. He explains from a neurological approach, how one develops this addiction. His message at the end of the chapter, that this behavior can be easily unlearned, as he has seen from experience.  It is a very fascinating read.  But not necessarily helpful in terms of recovery.  In fact, it can cause unnecessary triggers. 

But, in my experience, it is not a good idea to get too caught up in semantics. You need to make the decision whether you have a problem or not.  And then define your problem.  Once you have done that, then recovery becomes easier.  Before you admit your problem, there is not chance.  And before you defined the problem, the methods of recovery become fuzzy.  By defining your problem, you can then learn from others that had similar issues and learn how to overcome those problems.   

On this site, many of us, have realized in a very scary way that we have a major problem. This is especially true for those like myself that have tried for so many years to kick this habit.  What was most troubling was that most of us have not really rationalized our behavior.  We know full well the terrible acts but yet continue to do them.  None of our friends or family would approve of these acts.  We do not even feel good.  And WE all thought that the problem would eventually go away.  We all thought that we would just stop one day. But yet, we continued. We all thought that we had control, but eventually had to admit powerless and lack of self control.  Once we admitted and realized we are slaves to our bodies, recovery became a breeze.

One of the major defining factors of addiction is lack of self control in face of better judgment. So many of us could not control ourselves even in threat of family and jobs.   

It does not matter what you call it.  We call it addiction as matter of convenience, as it definitely is at least close to truth.

I hope this helpful.

Thanx alot for your reply Ykv_Shwarts, one of the main reasons why i wasn't using the forum was because like u said, I feel that the word  addiction was overused and abused. I'll give u an example, I have suffered in the past from depression and anxiety, i was even in rehab for a bit, because it got real serious, i still deal with it now as an issue and I'm seeing a pshyciatrist for it and am on anti-depressent medication. Now, the fact that I have a leaning towards mausterbating and porn could be so interconnected with the problen of anxiety and depression, to the extent that if i were to deal with the anxiety and depression the issues would fall away almost by themselves. In my case, personally, I dont think that the "addiction" is so connected to the anxiety and depression, but in some cases it night be, in my case, i think its connected a bit. whateva....

anyway, I'm gonna have a dicussion with my therpaist, she's one of the best in Australia, she's well recognised, I'm seeing her tomorrow morning, and I'll se what she says.

Anyway, moving on now...

I will check out your sources Ykv, thanx alot for your support everyone. it really keeps me going. I would of Deffinetly slipped up last night, if not for the forum, which is why, I'm gonna stick around to the end, and deal with the issues.

My hachlotos for this week are still in motion...

more for later...

Net

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Hi everyone

It's monday afternoon here

I'm sitting in the college library in front of the computer having a really really hard time, i just started going on to a website, and I quickly went off.

I'm really tired coz i went to bed late last night, I was helping someone who needed me to carry all their stuff up two flights of stairs. Then when I came home at 12, my father just got off the computer, and he told me that he just finished browsing through a movie that my younger brother (whos 13) watched with his mates on motzei shabbos. He said that the movie had EXTREME violence and that my brother was walking around in shock the whole day. I had trouble falling asleep after that, coz i realised how sick the world can be, and i felt so bad that he's exposed himself to such violence and sickness.  I also had some "withdrawal" stuff, from not acting out last night which made it quite hard too.

So i fell asleep at around 1:15 and then I had a hard morning, w rode my bike for like half an hour to get to an appointment which was really tomorrow, then i had to daven, and finally im here, its 3:30 and I wanted to get some work done today, but since I have these thoughts running through my head, like oh, its already 3:30 there's no point in starting now, its too late, thats it, u might as well look at porn, it will make u feel so much better, it's an escape, just do it. therefore im having a hard time.

Wish me luck brothers, i need it
Help me hashem, help, i wanna stay clean today, plz!!!!!!

Stay strong buddy
I know its hard when you see your brother getting caught up in the same evil that we stumbled on ourselves.
just recently i caught my brother watching porn.very mixed feelings,to say the least.
Stay strong!
you have strong resolve.youll be fine.
waiting to hear more-Uri

i slipped up, i feel so bad, what can I learn from this?

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a) Youre human (sorry to break it to you .

b) The yh never rests, especially when he sees you trying to break free of his spider web

c) 7 yipol tzadik v'kum  - How often you fall is a lot less important than how often you get back up. Back up must always be one time more than the falls.

d) "Neshama she natata bi, tehora hi" -  Not only is tomorrow another new chance, but so is the very minute after the fall

welcome to the club net

ive found that trying to see the fall in retrospect as a positive experience helps me alot.ive written about this in my thread.there is tremendous siyata dishmaya to use a fall to propel yourself upwards after(doesnt mean u should ring falls though )
if i can give my thoughts..
1)use the shame to pour out to hashem your pain
2)take note of the sequence of the fall
3)share all that u feel comfortable sharing on the forum (feelings before,during,after,dissapointment,shame,etc.) puts things in good perspective.youd be surprised how much it helps.
We love you more than we even did before net.We are waves (we rise and fall).itspart of who we are.but the tide keeps getting bigger...