I have heard that in the Zohar, it is said that the sin of wasted seed is the worst sin for which no recovery is possible.  And further that relations with non-Jews attaches to us even in Olam Haba. 

Not to say there aren't other factors, but these two things are like dark clouds hovering over my head.  What are the defenses against these charges?

It would be nice if you had a more definitive source for your statement before I go and call it apikorsus.

Ch 4 in iggeres ha'teshuva in Tanya, the Ba'al Ha'Tanya quotes this zohar very early in the chapter, questions it, and proceeds to answer how, yes, there is always teshuva..

See below from Rav Shternbach Shlit"a and the Satmar Rebbe zt"l -

As we are close to the time of Geulah Hashem skips over the Sidrei Teshuva and Tefilla and simple Teshuva and Tefilos are accepted!

Also, I've learned that I'm tempted to only see the Zohars and Chazals that say my situation is hopeless. As I've become more aware of my perceptions and motives (something I've learned on Duvid Chaim's phone conference...) I've noticed that I only do that as a excuse to act out ("Its a lost cause anyway so might as well make the most of it!"). If I see things with an honest perspective I know that I have to take these Chazals in the context of the many other Chazals that offer encouragement even when you've sunken to the lowest of the low. With honest eyes I see the story of Eleazer Ben Dordayah - www.aish.com/tp/i/moha/48922222.html - and I know that there must be misunderstanding the Zohar you mentioned.

ontheedgeman wrote on 24 May 2011 19:15:


Let's say it's true, that there is no recovery. It's still in the past, and everything in the past happened exactly as H' planned. If you were supposed to do "irreperable damage" to yourself, it is ultimately for the good. It will act as a tool you can use to fight the real fight in the present.

That's only if you're taking that statement literally. Obviously, nothing in the Zohar is so simple that it can be taken at face value (and a translation, no less), and I really don't think that's all it means. The sources quoted in previous posts will do better explaining than I can ever hope to.

I'm waaaay early in recovery, and trying to do more na'aseh than nishma. Zohar is great stuff, but I'm just trying to survive one day at a time! IYH I'll be able to tackle this question on some other today, but for today's today I'm just focusing on surrendering my will to Hashem and staying clean -- this stuff is just too complicated right now! 

All helpful replies, thank you.  YVY - you've got my number ;-)  Thanks for the R. Shternbach reference.  Also IAmAdam you have a good point... I've promised myself no Zohar until I first make some basic headway in Shas etc, so why do I use the Zohar which I can't possibly understand to worry about things... thanks all.

  :-)

Serene smile wrote on 25 May 2011 13:21:


SS - did you edit the rest of your reply?

Re: A (for those who caught his reply b/f the edit..) I'm guessing you mean that recovery from this addiction is not about Teshuva accepted or not, as Dov (from the DDoD) likes to say, but about living a healthy life, instead of the sick, depressed, zombie life that addiction produces. So whether Kabbala holds that there is Teshuva or not (and there is, but not the point), we can't go on shlepping through life if there is the solution of recovery.

Re: B - I like that Peshat in Teshuva Ila'ah! Either way, as Rav Shternbach says: As far as Klapai Shamayim only simple Teshuva is needed Samuch L'Geula and seeking recovery in the way that GYE provides certainly, absolutely, passes for simple Teshuva.

ontheedgeman wrote on 25 May 2011 03:06:

Baruch Shekivanti! It takes one to know one I guess...
ontheedgeman wrote on 25 May 2011 03:06:
My pleasure. I'm happy I was able to dig it up (maftaichos are great...). I hope many others benefit from his words too.

Teshuva is always available, and together with Yom Kippur, atones for z"l.  See Igros Moshe Orach Chaim 4:116.  So, do a proper Teshuva and you can put this fear to rest.

As to what the Zohar means, various explanations have been offered.  One possibility is that if a person has fallen into this aveira repeatedly, it's hard to motivate oneself to do Teshuva, as discussed in The Light of Ephraim.  But it can be done, and it gets easier over time.

Kedusha Thanks!

That Tanya mentioned earlier on this thread quotes R. Chaim Vital (Main talimd of the Holy Ari'zal) "the zohar Means 'lower teshuva' won't help "higher teshuva' most certainly will".. But A)let's not get too kabbalistic here and with connecting here on GYE, staying sober, thinking and acting positive etc.. We will automatically reach 'higher teshuva'. The most amazing things happen as we pray for, reach out to, and help each other along in real kedusha in these inyaim.

(Ok YVY? I had a looong tiring day :-) )

OK, so lets say that you did understand the Zohar correctly. Now what? Does the Zohar mean that Hashem now hates you? Doe sit mean that you have no more meaning to Him? That you have no beauty and goodness in your life?

Sha"s says clearly that any person who embarrassess another in public has no part in Olam Haba. So if you once did that, and many of us certainly have, then what? What do you do about it? Do you kill youself emotionally by giving up everafter on living a deep, happy, and fulfilling beautiful life as Hashem's favorite 'ontheedgeman'-guy? Bishvili nivra Olam does not apply to you any more? Rubbish. Just plain rubbish.

It's a stain, period.

Neeeext! (or as Reb bards would put it: KEEP ON TRUCKING!)

I am serious. This is avodas Hashem we are talking about. It is your real life, not a religiously-contrived game of who is a "rasha" or "tzaddik", or who is going to gehinom or not going. And it needs to last about 80 or 90 years. Though we all suffer from it, the truth is that there is no real place for self-pity in this life. It is destructive and ruins us. It needs to be rejected as an option once we wake up. I frequently have to reject it, so I may know just how you feel...

If you are headed to gehinnom or can't do Teshuvah, then what? The way I see it, now you can serve Hashem even though you will not get a big fat honor-prize from Him for it...for after all, you have this stain on you. Nu. So you can now do what He wants for Him, instead of just for you and your ticker-tape parade in Gan Eden. We all envision something like that, you know...a ticker-tape parade. "Make way and open the gates for the tzaddik Shomer Emunim!"

Read the RMB"N's iggeres. 2/3 of the way down. So? Now you finally have a way to really see others as having an advantage over you, instead of having to manufacture one. This is nothing new. If you read the letters of many great tzaddikim and many simple Yidden from the past you will see this theme: "b'avonosai harabim asher otzmu v'robu misa'aros roshi...etc." Well, now you can say that and really mean it.

And exactly what is so bad about that? I think it is a fine place to start out. See where He takes you from there. He is very good at rearranging things and working them out so life works better, you know. He does that for me and lots of other people I know and does a fine job.

I know most of the good people around here are uncomfortable with anything but a touchy-feely, 'feel-good' kind of yiddishkeit. But I don't need to start with that. I have a G-d who loves me even if I would be a rosha c"v, and certainly even though I'd be right on my knees in that bathroom with a magazine open on the floor and 'getting the old shameful job done'. Hey, He was right there, too, with me, no? And He brought me here nonetheless! Isn't that love?

And that's enough for me to be in allegiance to Him for the rest of my life. Ashirah laShem bchayay, azamroh leiloay b'odi, ye'erav olov sichi - anochi esmach baShem!!

PS. I am not suggesting that you must do this. I am only offerring a way out for you - or rather, a way through (durch, in yiddish, I believe). Even your worst fears about this stuff can be a vehicle for you to live a better life.