For a long time ive had this question and ive posed it to many rabbeim, mashgichim, etc. What is the correct hashkafa when facing a Nisayon as large as this? Is it better to say that it will not be so hard and therefore you will have the confidence to succeed or is it better to say that it will be hard it will be a strugle but i will succeed regardless. Of all the people ive asked half said one way half said the other. I think its a matter that only experiance can answer and maybe each person is different. please share with me your personal mehalech

Whatever works.

Me3 wrote on 14 Apr 2011 15:42:

obviously,        What Worked for you?

In this area if I face the nisayon head on, I lose every time eventually. I work on relying on Hashem, and admitting my powerlessness to him and the nisayon goes away. So in short, I don't do either I don't concentrate on the nisayon at all.

Recoveree wrote on 14 Apr 2011 15:40:

Your question is way too broad. Exactly what nisayon are you referring to here, please?

It's huge - but when we ask for hashem's help, we can learn to live.

For me, avoiding it worked best. It's so big, that I don't want to grapple with it directly. I just do my best to not be in situations where I'll have to struggle. And if I find myself in those situations, I get out as quickly as i can. These days, I can sometimes feel myself get bored and antsy when I'm online. When that happens, I try to get out and move to a different room quickly.

dov wrote on 14 Apr 2011 16:56:


Really its a question for any nisayon, but im asking it now regarding specific nisyonos that have to do with lusts and temptations.

I was too broad this time!

I meant, are you referring to the issue of mah yaaseh haben v'lo yecheteh that exists in the environment of today's cities and the media? That is, how can we protect our teenagers who naturally struggle with their growing sexual power, in a society that so perverts it (into self-pleasuring)?

Or are you referring to the average guy who is messed up enough to actually post on this forum? I have met many of them and have come to correspond with many more of them. And...

While I believe that there are some here who have only been tempted to look at women and porn a few times and it bothers them terribly - so they are here for chizzuk. And there are also many here who see themselves as having an occasional masturbation problem. They all need support and chizzzuk, encouragement, love, and a safe environment where they can learn that they can stop if they get a little help.

But I know that many who are here, only take that weird-feeling step of actually posting on the forum because they have been suffering in silence for a decade or more with persistent and progressively shocking porn use, masturbation and other demeaning behaviors that they are very, very ashamed of and are deeply confused about why they can be frum yidden yet cannot seem to get real control in this one area. 

Are you referring this question to these mechanchim? Or are you only referring to the first few categories - the one for the "son" who did not even get into trouble yet, or the "sons" who have, but can still learn to control it? Or is the real conundrum you seek resolution for, the problem of chronic porn users - frum yidden who are secretly watching porn and/or masturbating on a regular basis and then coming home to a loving wife and family and acting the part of a decent guy (which they are in many ways)?

Let me know.

Thanks!

Would have been more appropriate if you could have found four "sons".

Here's another thought.

I was reading a piece from michtav me'eliyahu, where he quotes someone as saying that when we start saying that a nisayon is so hard, we've already lost to the yetzer hora.

On the other hand, I don't think this means, in any way, that we should ignore the dangers of a nisayon. That much is clear from any knowledge of mussar, hashkafa, and human nature.

The way I understand it is that we have to realize how strong the nisayon is, and what we need to do to counter it. At the same time, we know that we don't have to fall. One day at a time, with Hashem's help, we can succeed.

The biggest trick of the yetzer hora, in this area as well as all others, is telling us that we can't live without x, y, and z. It's SOOOOO hard to even try. It takes SOOOO much effort.

And as we all know, once we get into that mode, it's often a very quick downhill ride, ending with a fiery crash.

I have been thinking about this question myself, and personally reached a decision that although it is a long road to full recovery, take it one day/week (depends on individual and level of growth) at a time. Its basically having a short and long term strategy, with strong fences helping us to get by day by day. Its certainly not a good idea to be despondent b/c 'its so hard' or the immense amount of time for us to recover (experience tells that its more than a '90 day' job). However, the stronger we build our foundation, the greater the satisfaction and healing. most importantly, the easier it will become.

I also want to take this opportunity to mention that Pesach has helped me to strengthen my resolve and increased my determination. I found a note mentioning that today last year (5th day of sefirah) I lapsed. It is really important for me to have a clean day. Moments ago, I did let down my guard and broke my promise and 'ran a search'/viewed some images, although not 'znius' they were not nakedness. although this lasted several minutes, boruch Hashem that I closed it down and came onto this forum. Lets draw strength and determination from this experience. We can breakfree and bring tikunim for our past sins and strive to holiness.

Pesach sameach. May Hashem help and rescue all of us. We do not want to go back to mizrayim!

nezach wrote on 24 Apr 2011 13:28:
This is beautiful, at least to me. Funny how despondent some of us become regarding the impossibility of recovery...yet so few actually give up on getting a degree, finding a lucrative job, finding a good wife, or raising a family. All those things are 'really hard' too. But somehow, we all seem to just slog through it all until we get what we want for ourselves in those areas.

At least most of us do. It may not be pretty, yes, but we get most of these things. Why?

Because we need them. That's all. Everybody knows that you just need to get a job, a wife, have kids, whatever...so you do it.

And you do not do any of these things all at one time or in  '90 days'. How silly. They take a year, sometimes a few years.

Yet I have read so many on GYE write about the fact that they balked when they read others like me talk of how getting free of the old images and movies in my head took a year or two - or of how finally really taking my 4th step and coming to accept myself with peace so I could finally come to my senses and know (for a change) that Hashem accepts me and loves exactly as I am took me about 1.5 years of clean time in recovery - well, why do people hear that and freak out, while they all accept that it takes 3 years to get an MBA or semicha, become a shtik'l talmid chochom, or find a good wife - and go do those things?

Sure we are all chicken. No chidush there. I am possibly the biggest chicken of them all. But we do what we must and we give up on quick gratification - for things that we really need.

I am not addressing you, 'netzach', just reflecting. You write sharply and to the point here. But there is one thing I'd hope for you (and for me to continue with): that we do not do this thing alone. We have always sought out porn and images and masturbated alone. recovery does not really succeed that way for most, it seems.

Recovery really comes by way of doing things differently than we did them to get sick. That means opening up to real (safe) people in a real (safe) ways. These virtual forum 'relationships' may be a bridge - perhaps the only bridge for some. But I hope for you to find real people who are sick as you are and yet in strong real recovery, as I found. Only the truly sick understand and can pierce the darkness of the insanity, and we need to do it together.

Perhaps you are doing this already - but if you are still going it alone, my message is for you.

Hatzlocha!