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Open Correspondence with Guard on an Important Issue
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TOPIC: Open Correspondence with Guard on an Important Issue 1476 Views

Re: Open Correspondence with Guard on an Important Issue 16 Mar 2011 14:50 #101172

  • me3
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But it's the same 12 steps.
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Re: Open Correspondence with Guard on an Important Issue 16 Mar 2011 14:51 #101174

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ur-a-jew wrote on 16 Mar 2011 14:49:

I wondered what the "o" stood for.  Overeaters Anonymous is a different website.


O

(see what I did there? )
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Re: Open Correspondence with Guard on an Important Issue 16 Mar 2011 14:55 #101175

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ur-a-jew wrote on 16 Mar 2011 14:44:

It's interesting but the word addict is not used in Step 1 at all:  "We admitted we were powerless over _______—that our lives had become unmanageable." Do these same people get a blow to their ego when they read the gemara that says "Yitzro shel odom mesgaber alov bchol yom . . . v'ulmelay HKBH ozro ayno yochul lo."  Or how about when they say three times a day in Shemone Esrei "והנורא" and recognize that He is awesome in that no creation can do good or bad only according to His will. 
I'm all for self-esteem but it may be that a little blow to the overinflated ego ain't so bad.  Generally it's our ego that gets us in to this mess in the first place.  After all why isn't my wife satisfying me doesn't she understand that I am in the mood and if she's not going to or my boss is going to treat me like that I am entitled to a little [pick your pleasure].

I agree, but it's the misunderstanding of the word "addict" that throws people for a loop. It's wrong, wrong, wrong, but it's the Metzius.
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Re: Open Correspondence with Guard on an Important Issue 16 Mar 2011 14:59 #101176

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David/Rage wrote on 16 Mar 2011 14:51:
people really think that we should divide the group further by our own particular mishgasim? i mean, come on, dont you think its hard enough to find enough frum western jew to form a chabura? if we were to divide it down by levels of addictions or types of addictions or whatever you wanna call it (i kinda see addicted like being pregnant - you either is or aint) then we will each have our own lonesome forum all to ourselves...i was emailing another GYEer earlier today about how the BEST thing you can do for recovery is get support for others that are also in the ship...we put up with a lot of nonsense in SA and on GYE in order to gain that tremendous support we get from banding together with other people like us...we are a minority of a minority of a minority...why cut us up even further...what does it hurt me of the addict next to me likes men, prostitutes, possums or pink elephants?...we have enough in common to unite us, i think....

This is a really great point. I think you made the same point last night but it got censored (for good reason... ). The Forum setup might just lend itself to some level of "one size fits all" and it's quite a challenge to shake it. The ideal is individual treatment, but the communal support of a Forum setup appears to sacrifice that for better or worse.
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Re: Open Correspondence with Guard on an Important Issue 16 Mar 2011 15:00 #101177

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YVY wrote on 16 Mar 2011 14:55:

ur-a-jew wrote on 16 Mar 2011 14:44:

It's interesting but the word addict is not used in Step 1 at all:  "We admitted we were powerless over _______—that our lives had become unmanageable." Do these same people get a blow to their ego when they read the gemara that says "Yitzro shel odom mesgaber alov bchol yom . . . v'ulmelay HKBH ozro ayno yochul lo."  Or how about when they say three times a day in Shemone Esrei "והנורא" and recognize that He is awesome in that no creation can do good or bad only according to His will. 
I'm all for self-esteem but it may be that a little blow to the overinflated ego ain't so bad.  Generally it's our ego that gets us in to this mess in the first place.  After all why isn't my wife satisfying me doesn't she understand that I am in the mood and if she's not going to or my boss is going to treat me like that I am entitled to a little [pick your pleasure].

I agree, but it's the misunderstanding of the word "addict" that throws people for a loop. It's wrong, wrong, wrong, but it's the Metzius.


People simply need to be educated, just like they need to be educated that having an addiction is not an excuse for continuing the behavior, it only means that self control alone will not be enough to stop. 

Tool #1 in the GYE Handbook (in the attitude section - p.p. 6-7 in the latest version), contains a very good explanation.
Just as an alcoholic needs to avoid that first sip, a lust addict needs to avoid that first slip.Slip today? No way! ;)Fall today? No way, Jose'!
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Re: Open Correspondence with Guard on an Important Issue 16 Mar 2011 15:06 #101178

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YVY wrote on 16 Mar 2011 14:55:

I agree, but it's the misunderstanding of the word "addict" that throws people for a loop. It's wrong, wrong, wrong, but it's the Metzius.


Guard, if you are still listening in, I think we have the solution.  Please put a banner on the website with the following disclaimers. 

Note:  Before reading these disclaimers you may want to take a seat and get a glass of water.  If you start hyperventilating after reading the next disclaimer take a deep breath and drink some water.  You will be okay.

Note:  You may after looking around this site come to the determination that you are an addict.  It is nothing to be afraid of.  It is not the end of the world.  There are many chosuva people in the world who are addicts.  You will still be able to find a shidduch and marry of your kids even though you're an addict.  And fortunately there is a solution.

Note:  Just because you may have looked at porn, you may have masturbated, you may be an addict [yes even you], doesn't mean you should go to a live SA meeting tonight or run tell your wife.  Consult with someone more experienced who understands addictions.

Good luck
Help free Sholom Rubashkin by giving him the zechus of Shemiras Eiynayim.  www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=2809.0
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Re: Open Correspondence with Guard on an Important Issue 16 Mar 2011 15:10 #101179

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ur-a-jew wrote on 16 Mar 2011 15:06:

Guard, if you are still listening in, I think we have the solution.  Please put a banner on the website with the following disclaimers. ......
ROFL!!
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Re: Open Correspondence with Guard on an Important Issue 16 Mar 2011 23:10 #101258

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Me3 wrote on 16 Mar 2011 14:19:

What I've learned from Step 1 "That I am powerless" is that Hashem control everything in this world. There is no such thing as "Kochi V'Otzem Yadi" I can't do anything by myself. In the same manner that I realize that I can't beat this addiction by myself, the same is true by everything. Addiction is just a tangible lesson a moshol. To everything else.


When I read this post of Me3, I was reminded of a beautiful shiur that I heard today in the car as me and my partner drove to Yerushalayim for a meeting. I was inspired to write it down for today's chizuk e-mail. Thank you Me3!
Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
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Re: Open Correspondence with Guard on an Important Issue 17 Mar 2011 14:40 #101289

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guardureyes wrote on 16 Mar 2011 23:10:

Me3 wrote on 16 Mar 2011 14:19:

What I've learned from Step 1 "That I am powerless" is that Hashem control everything in this world. There is no such thing as "Kochi V'Otzem Yadi" I can't do anything by myself. In the same manner that I realize that I can't beat this addiction by myself, the same is true by everything. Addiction is just a tangible lesson a moshol. To everything else.


When I read this post of Me3, I was reminded of a beautiful shiur that I heard today in the car as me and my partner drove to Yerushalayim for a meeting. I was inspired to write it down for today's chizuk e-mail. Thank you Me3!


Their are no coincidences in this world. I "happened" to have someone else's car last night which "happened" to have a shuir from Parshas Vayechi playing and in the 15 minutes I was in the car I heard the following Seforno. The Seforno is bothered by a question, why does Yosef in response to Yaakovs request to bury him in Eretz Yisroel say "anochi" esseh kdvorecha. Why was it necessary to say "anochi". Answers the Seforno that Yosef was saying I can't guarantee that it will happen. I can say "Anochi" I will do everything I can do but the result is not up to me.

אנכי אעשה כדברך . אנכי
מצד עצמי אעשה כדברך בכל  כחי

The Rov giving the shuir explained that Yosef was saying that certain things are not up to me. The mitzryim have certain rules which may prevent me from carrying out the mission. Based on yesterday's chizzuk email, however, I believe that the Seforno is saying something much deeper. Yosef was saying he internalized the lesson of eiyshas potiphar.  Results are dependent on the RBSO. Yosef was saying I will make my effort but whether I succeed that's not up to me, that is up to the RBSO.
Help free Sholom Rubashkin by giving him the zechus of Shemiras Eiynayim.  www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=2809.0
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Re: Open Correspondence with Guard on an Important Issue 21 Mar 2011 14:44 #101450

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Beautiful!
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