YVY wrote on 15 Mar 2011 17:56:


Yes of course, I realized.

I'm not sure there is a big disagreement here. Most people agree and on this site we do not advise non-addicts to join SA groups or phone conferences. Dov is probably the most vocal about non addicts not joining.

And in terms of working the 12 steps on your own not in a group setting, I don't see the concern, unless you feel somebody is going to drill Step 1 into his mind that his life has become unmanagable, stop there and destroy his life. Which while it may be a minute risk, I dont think we need to have precautions for every idiot (no offense to  :-X).

What do you propose, by the way? That we warn non addicts not to join SA groups? Or something more?

Me3 wrote on 15 Mar 2011 18:24:

Sneaky guy 

Yeah - we are in agreement. The issue is mostly about guiding people according to the advice of Dov that you mentioned and according to the GYE Nutshell. The site has to do it's best to avoid increasing peoples emotional temperatures to the point where they don't make the appropriate decisions.

YVY, here are some ideas that might you might consider helpful toward realizing your goal...not that i necessarily agree or disagree





One way to do that might involve changing the name of this entire forum from "Internet Addiction Forum", which pretty much says that if you're here, you're addicted to something a little more pareve.

Additionally, the generic introduction package template (Welcome to our community! Once you've arrived, there's no turning back. Everyone here will just grab a hold of you and pull you up, up, up!...") should probably be modified.
The word "addict" appears 9(!!) times, which is a really strong (excessively so?) message to someone who may just need some chizuk with shmiras einayim. As of now, advice to join the 12 Step Calls is included in this introduction, and l'kichsaoscho, should probably be removed, or at least have a clarification about whom the Calls are for.

David/Rage wrote on 15 Mar 2011 19:00:



Typo FTW. That made me laugh too. Impressive typo, even by my own horrific  standards

David/Rage wrote on 15 Mar 2011 18:44:

That's not how I understood Kosher. What I thought he meant was associating with people and therefore thinking that you're one of them, that your addiction is as progressed as theirs - not that you'll actually engage in the activities that they did. I agree - I have not been tempted to try any of the expressions of lust that I have read about here.

shit

I had to test it out

fuck

this too

LOL. I was trying to figure out how I mangled typing that word so badly. I figured it's just cause im a worthless piece of kichsa

David/Rage wrote on 15 Mar 2011 19:08:


LOL!! I've noticed that kichsa a few times in your posts and wondered what it was. I just love your forwardness Rage (after the censors, of course..). Never give it up even after you finish your Ivory Soap Sandwich.

This means going back and reading all of David's post a second time!!  > > > > )

David/Rage wrote on 15 Mar 2011 19:08:


OMG! It was you? I always thougt it was Kedusha!

Wow this post was very informative! besides for the main subject, which i have been grappling with for the past month. I now know what kichsa is!  ;D
You guys had me rolling! thanks!

I don't think the 12 Steps is the problem.

It is more the way inexperienced Sponsors push others into proclaiming they are addicts.

They think that everyone who comes to GYE & complains, must be secretly complaining of being VERY VERY bad, w/o having ever said so

Some guys come here & state that they are rock-bottom - but they are referring to what 'rock-bottom' means in THEIR minds! .... which can be an improper website once a month - because that is geferlach for a Torah'dig Jew.

I dont think we should blame the sponsors. I dont think its malicious. Everyone interprets things from their own perspective. Maybe there need to be different kinds of sponsors for different kinds of problems, allowing them to respond appropriately to the needs of each person.

You will notice that when someone post requesting that a Sponsor vollunteer to guide him he will usually get no responses.

The Sponsors I was referring to are those who are not operating under the official capacity....  They are just acting like Sponsors.....  They give advice without knowing to whom they are advising what.