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What can I say. I will be honest, and everyone can disagree with me.

When a gadol gives an eitzah or a p'sak, he has everyone in mind. He looks at the global picture. He doesn't just look at "what is best for you", but he takes everyone into account.

I personally feel that it is suicidal to give over such news to a prospective kallah, and a kallah who has her head on straight would be a meshuginah to lichatchilah marry such a person, that she should have to worry "why is he coming home so late....where is he etc."
  I personally disagree with this, and I feel that you could end up  spending the rest of your life single...unless of course the prospective kallah is one who also has a pagom( like a terminal illnes, she drools when she talks etc. etc..
    AND, not to mention how this news will spread all over about you, and to ALL of the shadchanim, because don't forget...loshon harah is mutar when it is l'toelles. And, this is deff. news that is l'toelles.
    I feel that this advice, p'sak whatever it is, is a death sentence which will ruin you. I am being honest.
  BUT, I will say that before you begin shidduchim, or before you get married to your prospective kallah, you absolutely MUST make a neder that you will put all of your koach into getting well, as you are here at this forum, and you will never give up, even if this means going to meetings etc. You will never marry a women in a state of being "out of control". And, the rest, is mamash min hashamayim that Hashem through his hasgacha is giving your prospective wife a man who has this tikkun to fix, and the fact that you have made a resolution to work on it to the end, then she will have married a true tzadik warrior.

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The truth is that there is very huge difference between the metzios of "Before" the wedding, and "After" the wedding. The "Before" is a time of checking out, being careful, and sometimes people completely leave hashem out of the picture and check into one's previous doros etc. It can get out of hand. To give over such information at the checking out stage....I can only see catastrophy. (But, as I said above, if the person is not 100% commited to changing...no matter what, then he should take R. Twersky advice.
  Now, after the chasuna, you and your wife are one neshoma. You are working together, helping each other, and both you, and your wife will have plenty of changing to do, and middos to fix which can/will last a life time. At this time, you can (when you get to know your wife a bit) confide in her has your Eizer K'negdo). This does not mean to tell her things which will hurt her, but she can understand that a normal man is faced with challenges, especially with what we are confronted with on a daily  basis in the streets . And, then, at the right time, as you feel it out, and who she is, you will see more, and more what, and how much to tell. This is so that she can help you....the 2 of you working together. There is no need to tell her what you "where" neccessarily, but rather how you have these sensitivities, which will help when she wishes to take  you to places or events that could be big triggers etc.
  When a kallah finds out that her husband has a history of being an addict to immorality.....have a nice day.
  When your wife sees your resolve, and strength in being an upright respectful yid, inspite of the immoral world we are living in, she will respect you.

Tomim2B wrote on 29 Jul 2009 11:37:


Hi Tamim2B!
First, great name! Each time, I think all the cute ones possible have been used up, and along comes another.
I guess its like those license plates.
Anyway, i'm just kutan, not one to mix into heavy things like this, but I've had the zchus to be around great people and can share what I've heard from them.

First thing is that the TRUTH is not necessarily the actual cold facts. The gemara : kalla na'ah v'chasuda... we follow Hillel's opinion. So, don't worry about building a relationship... etc... if indeed the best thing at this time would be not to tell.

Now, the rules of telling very much depend on how certain the potential hezek is, and the magnitude of it. So, that means you sharing with someone where your at in terms of negative activity.... your track record basically.
Please don't do it online... do it with someone responsible and experienced in these things.

They can guide you.

But my hunch is that if it was limited to personal activities mainly and not involved relationships with others, AND you have a track record of working on improvement that is already on its way (and you commit to staying here and posting regularly... plug, plug) then it would be WRONG for you to tell her now.
And not right after marriage either. Let her first see the GOOD in you, how you are an ovaid Hashem and aspire for greatness... and then she will be in a position to accept the information properly (assuming you haven't completely gotten over it by then!!! :D)

AGAIN... DISCLAIMER... these are weighty issues where there is no room for 'being machmir' since there is only one 'right' way and doing what seems right may actually be wrong. It also affects another human being, in a very strong way. So, kutan here should not be giving advise, and is only sounding off, to impress on you that you need to ask a personal shaila, but make sure it is from someone experienced and level headed. This is definitely not something to be decided on in any other way.

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Well, I think it depends on how bad the addiction is, in terms of quality and quantity. In other words, is the acting out a personal one, or does it involve others? And so on.

The bottom line is that if there is something that will almost certainly cause significant hardships to the other, then there is a obligation to tell before.

If it is something unpleasant, but can likely be overcome it is not required to tell, and can be wrong to tell too, in many cases.

I don't know where you are from, and if there is someone you can speak to comfortably. If there is not, then try one of the respected people. R' Shmuel Kaminetsky has phone hours, R' Yisroel Reisman would be a great person, in EI you might try R' Berkowitz.

All these people will not be 'shocked' by whatever you tell them.. and they will not look down on you either
Adaraba, they will (and I do) have the greatest respect that you can be so human

kutan

Kutan,

Right on it.

There Are Addicts & There Are Addicts.

I think that Rabbi Twersky is referring to level 3 addict, which I think may = to someone with a physical Illness, which in that case should be told in advance to the prospective Kalah.

But if its just addictive to the point that you got caught in the Web Or Net of the Y'H and are just having a hard time getting out of it & with the help of GYE & getting married you will settle down, then I don't see why a person would give himself a death sentence by telling her.

This is just one mans unprofessional opinion.

E.L.

every chassan gets decent hadracha BEFORE his chassunah

please get a good chassan rebbe

find a good rav

and i agree with reb E.L.

bardichev

Great question.

I agree that Rabbi Twersky was talking about a level 3 addict.

In a sense anyone who is a heterosexual is an addict. It is different than pot of smoking because G-d alerady gave you the desire to lust. You dont have to smoke with friends or stick a needle in you to get the initial urge.

Having said that my feeling and this is what I hold to be true is that while it may make sense to talk about it with your wife logically - they (and many men as well) cannot separate logic and emotion. I don't mean to demean them - its just how the world works.

Just because you act out does not mean your an addict. You can be better than most people - act out infrequently and consider yourself an addict. Once you tell that to her she can google it and find out what the secular definition of addict is - someone who visits prostitutes every night - who cant hold a job because .....

A frum addict while he can be that bad often is not.

If you do decide to tell be sure you explain exactly where you are holding....

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Tomim,

This question is a halachic issue.

It affects two people's future.

We don't want to harm either one... and please remember... 'harm' might mean your kalla breaking off the shiduch in alarm... and that would be harm to her as well.
Of course, there is also the other potential harm.
You MUST speak to someone proficient in the halacha and in real life experience, and with a heaping portion of the 5th shulchan aruch (aka common sense) to know how to proceed.

please, DO NOT rely on your 'gut feeling' on this one.

There are rules in place from sheishes yimay b'raishis on how to proceed.

Please find out....

... and keep us posted when you do!

and by the way, I don't think I've yet wished you...

MAZEL TOV!

kutan

Tomim2B wrote on 29 Jul 2009 21:32:


whew, Tamim, you beat me to it. My post of above missed this one. Yes, in my kutan opinion, you are right on the mark with what you write.

PS, the mazel tov was supposed to be in color. sorry that didn't work. >

Tomim2B wrote on 29 Jul 2009 21:32:


Tomim2B,

All of the advise given was right on. Just hoping to share something I learned from Rav Shalom Arush in his sefer B'gan Hachochma.

The Gemorah in Kidushin mem tes amud bais says that If someone marries a woman on condition that he is a Tzaddik, even if he was a Rasha Gomur, the marriage is consumated. This is because he possibly thought about doing T'shuva.

A Rasha Gamur is someone who could have been a murderer, a rapist, a homosexual...you name it - and the Gemorah considers him a Tzadik since he thought about doing Tshuva!

We learn from this the power of hischadshus - when a jew desires to change his ways. So there was once a person who had issues with the internet but it was a different person - not you. Thinking about it any other way is the Atzas Yetzer Horah.

Hischadshus is one of the fundamental principles in Breslover Chasidus and that is why they always talk about the importance of being B'simcha. If in order to put you into Atzvus, the Yetzer Hora starts reminding you about your past and tells you that "you must be "honest" with your kalla", send him to the dogs and tell him that you were born today. Therefore, what he is telling you is totally irrelevant.

So there is nothing to tell your kallah - especially if you have changed your ways.

Pintele Yid

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