@baalteshuvawannabee, welcome, and well said.
Have you ever read or listened to Gabor Maté's work?
He speaks a lot on the subject of addiction and how's it's not the problem but rather the perceived solution.

**Day 119**

I am enjoying my stay at the Ivy League Torah study program and am learning so much about my yiddishkeit.

I always imagine myself caught between the battle of two animals: a green, slippery viper and a big, strong dog. The dog represents my yetzer tov, as dogs are smart, loyal, and kind, while the viper is cold, calculating, deceptive, and sneaky, representing my yetzer hara.

I know that I need to take drastic measures to finally free myself of this affliction, but I'm afraid. One of the instructors in the program mentioned he has an app that charges him money every time he opens a dirty site. However, I'm not sure if this method will work for me because it feels coercive.

He also mentioned that there really is no need for a smartphone unless you are a busy professional. It’s really just the fear of missing out.

The problem is that my smartphone isn't all bad. I'm using it for Duolingo to learn Hebrew, Audible to read more non-fiction, and Canvas to track my activities. Plus, I can use various apps to enhance my Jewish learning, such as studying Torah or connecting with other Jewish communities.

The problem is that even if I use YouTube 90% of the time to watch educational content, maybe 10% of the time I might watch softcore porn.

The screen time settings on the phone aren't effective. They are easy to turn off as the settings are different for adults. Additionally, third-party blockers can be turned off without requiring a code. And this isn't just an issue with porn; my screen time is way too high.

Perhaps I need to be extreme. I once challenged myself to use a flip phone for a few weeks, and it was great. But then I realized that it wasn't sustainable for a secular environment.

I also don't want my future children to grow up thinking this behavior is okay. It would be unfair for whoever I marry to have to suffer the effects of this addiction. What if I get urges to masturbate or watch porn during her menstrual cleansing process before the mikva?

What should I do? I'm caught between the dog and the viper. I want the dog to win, but the viper has poison. I know that if I don't solve this problem, it could cost me my future marriage!

After just a drop of research, (I'll admit) I've noticed that there are four distinct and necessary steps for long-term success: (that most recovered people adhere to, and that from my experience have been posted about countless times on the forum. Correct me when/if I'm inaccurate or just plain wrong, thx)

#1) Commitment: You need a solid unwavering decision to stop, completely. I think this step is pretty self-explanatory.

What's not so obvious is: if you're addicted to P&M, yes, you must stop ALL sorts of fantasizing, lusting, and even watching most, if not all TV as well. People concur also that listening to secular music (kol isha for sure) has been an added detriment to their progress. So be wise and consider cutting that out as well. 

Tip: it's very hard to work on many things at once as Rabbi Shafier says, if you're trying to lose weight and stop P&M at the same time, maybe determine as to what you're more committed to stopping and only slowly incorporate the second thing you're trying to stop once you have the first one quite under control.

Tip: complete the Core Values worksheet (and really most mild-to-moderate strugglers would benefit greatly from completing the entire F2F program) 

E.g. of committed attitudes: "I'm doing this because (in my case, being a single bochur) I wanna be "X" # of days clean before walking down to the chuppah" [not that it's a prerequisite, but it may be a sincere motivation]. OR "I want to stop, forever, because I see how it's undermining my relationship with my eishes chayil", OR "Now is the time to stop before I make myself more distant from my kids" OR "I must put an end to my living a double life"

Tip: It may help to repeat you're motivation motto/core values for stopping by looking yourself in the mirror whenever you need chizzuk.

Additionally, perhaps the main reason why stopping wholeheartedly is the first step towards recovery is that when your mind is churning in filth, it's hard to imagine: that you can ever recover (which leads to yiush and depression) OR that there's any other way of life outside of constant P&M etc.

I feel like honesty is super important to freeing my self from addiction, as hard as it is to admit (it’s super hard) there has been to many lapses in seeing things for me to in good conscience continue this streak. I am restarting, tom is day 1. Another attempt at pure 30 days from inappropriate images. (Ps if anyone is reading this if ppl can interact a little so I can feel a little accountability. Thank you)

The consensus seems to be that most of the chevra here (BH) are not "true" addicts. Whatever we do, it is good to be familiar with the other resources so it can be suggested when appropriate. That being said, I think the goal is to be a group of friends, building bonds of connection and strength, not so much strangers getting validation and acceptance (though we'll get that too IYH). 

I thought he died as he did teshuva, he cried until his soul left him, not that he requested to die. Am I mistaken?

Here is an article from Aish with various peshatim, with linked footnotes: aish.com/48922222/

While his gesture is grand and his resolve admirable, why did he need to die? The Talmud says that his corruption was so all-consuming, his indulgence so addictive, that it was as if he was an idolater. He worshipped(13) his own lust with all his heart and all his soul and all his possessions. He was willing to cross seven(14) rivers; he took all the money that was required, for his soul was consumed by his addiction. In order to be healed he needed to use the same forces: he now needed to serve God with all his heart all his soul and all his possessions. Perhaps this intense reversal is what led to his death. Perhaps his death was actually a kindness(15) on the part of God; for such a corrupt man to have reached a spiritual high is quite impressive, but how would this man conduct himself on a day-to-day basis? With his addiction subdued or under control, what would his life have been? Would he have been able to sustain this religious high with any consistency? Or was death an escape? Perhaps the only way he would gain a share in the world to come was by leaving the world at the time of his pinnacle, the moment he cried and achieved purity.

Our conclusion must be that Teshuva is always possible, though at times the effects of sin are so profound that they cannot be elevated. Death alone brings atonement. The uplifting message of the story, indeed the message and teaching of Rabbi Eleazar ben Durdaya, is that Teshuva is always accessible, purity always possible, a share in the world to come always available, even for the worst of sinners.(16)

chosemyshem wrote on 04 Jul 2024 14:34:

I wouldn't say he chose death per se. For him, that was the only way out.

In fact, according to some commentaries, what he was seeking from these failed programs was to be able to stay alive. Dying was not his first choice. I'd say it wasn't his choice at all.

In any case, I highly doubt that anyone here is even close to his, uh, caliber, addicts or non-addicts alike.

thompson wrote on 04 Jul 2024 14:22:

Great point and well taken. (Maybe the place to make it from was not from the story of the Rabbi who literally chose death since he knew he couldn't live a different life.)

chosemyshem wrote on 03 Jul 2024 20:06:

That's the point in the story of R' Elazar Ben Dordaya.

He had sex with every prostitute he could lay his hand on. The OG sex addict.

When he wanted to get clean, he turned to many programs. 
Mountains and hills, Heaven and earth, Sun and moon, Stars and constellations.
They all turned him away. Nothing worked for him.

Till he realized that "programs" don't "work." It's up to me.
And he cried like he never cried before. It's a painful realization that, ultimately, I'm on my own. No one's coming to pick me up.

But it's also a liberating realization. Now, I can actually start working on it and make it my own.

chosemyshem wrote on 03 Jul 2024 20:06:

I repeat:
proudyungerman wrote on 03 Jul 2024 20:05:


 (it's sunny in Burma...)

chosemyshem wrote on 03 Jul 2024 16:05:

Hmmm..this got me thinking...
chosemyshem wrote on 26 Jun 2024 20:30:

And also...
chosemyshem wrote on 26 Jun 2024 19:49:

And one more...
chosemyshem wrote on 10 Jun 2024 20:52:


Are you so sure about what you wrote before?

Unless you think that perfection is the opposite of failure, you been successful and growing, I think.
Please contemplate that thought. Consider where you were 3 months ago, 6 months ago, 2 years ago, and where you are now.
Allow yourself to appreciate the progress that you have made, even if it wasn't as smooth as you would have liked. 
Embrace where you are and feel good about it. You are good!

(Disclaimer: I don't men to simply pump you up and make you feel good. I am trying to help you appreciate and enjoy what (I think) you have accomplished. It's a hard fight and you are making progress. That is actually a great thing. You need to learn to appreciate that in a serious way.
This doesn't take away from what there is to accomplish further. If anything it enables you gather the strength needed to solider on.)

redfaced wrote on 03 Jul 2024 16:49:

Lol! Was gonna say the same thing!!

Finchley would actually make an awesome username.  

thompson wrote on 03 Jul 2024 16:34:

Let the record show that I said thank you for the reason for the edit ONLY.
Not the post and not the edit.

chosemyshem wrote on 03 Jul 2024 16:05:

This sounds like something I need in my life, and I very much relate to the first part as well (the crushing disappointment when yet another promise fails to deliver).
I'd love to see what you discover.

Please excuse my ignorance, what's TBOTG?
Ah, never mind, I got it.
Thanks anyhow.

I tend to get burned when I think I've discovered a "new program" that will help me get clean. GYE, F2F, shemona perakim, TBOTG, uber-filtering, re-learning intimacy, accountability programs, charts, personal connections, new kabbolos/gedarim/commitments, prayer regimes, teshuva. They help a bit, but then collapse. And then I feel worse than when I started. A whole laundry list of "programs" that I thought would solve the problem, but did not. 

So naturally I'm pessimistic about any "program" that will "solve" my lust "issue". Chalk up another reason why I haven't started SA meetings. 

And so but even so here I go on another program. Hopefully a different program, but I have almost no optimism that this will solve the problem. But either way, here it goes.

The goal of this program is to connect to Hashem. The end goal is to make Hashem so real to me that I'm uncomfortable masturbating in his presence. To make porn, masturbation, and lust a positive part of the derech for me to connect to Hashem. To let Hashem into my life even if that means giving up my precious treasure of lust.

I want this. I'm so jealous of how people here talk about feeling a victory and closeness to Hashem from looking away. I'm so jealous of how Dov talks about the real relationship an addict can develop with his personal Hashem. I'm so sick of feeling like garbage and dead inside after binging.

I've made a lot of improvement in the past six months. But 30 days or 90 days or better filters or less being alone or even meeting chaverim is not going to the root of the problem. I need to change. And I'm not going to start not liking porn. I have yet to see on this site a solution for the root problem besides connecting to Hashem. Call it step 3 and surrender or call it TBOTG and victory, it's a relationship with Hashem that seems to be the only way out. And I'd really like to get out. 

Not sure how to go about this. But I'd like to. Practical suggestions are welcome. I already do a daily read of TBOTG most days (though it really is hard for me to get into it) and working on davening is an uphill battle.