bb0212 wrote on 22 Feb 2017 13:28:

Winsome loosesome is a loose loose situation
Its for bloggers on YWN
We can do better on gye

All cord's was saying was - whatever
you choose, it should be

behatzlacha

Hit me up an email, in my signature. Would love to hear from you.

Sure. I think it's a point which we all know to be true but yet aren't fully cognizant of. 

The basic idea is as follows: an alcoholic uses alcohol to deal with the stresses of day to day life. Alcohol is not necessarily the best way (a.k.a most effective method) to release stress. It's merely the method the alcoholic knows. He LEARNT it.

When he has an overwhelming urge to reach for the bottle it's not to release tension that built up as a result of not drinking.

Thr truth is that this argument is perhaps even stronger for a sex addict which a "behavioral" rather than a "substance" addiction.

By the alcoholic it can be argued that it's discomfort resulting from his dependency that he's feeling. 

Although in truth I don't think any thinking person believes that dependency is the whole story. Surely, the primary reason the alcoholic drinks is to escape the (sometimes harsh) realities of life. 

The exercise and vampire paragraph was just bringing this point home.  Vampires prefer human blood. Animal blood is a bad alternative for them. It doesn't really quench their thirst. 

I was saying that good habits and good stress releasers for the sex addict are not like the animal blood for the vampire. 

They are equally legitimate. Good habits like exercising or building connections with people don't just "quiet the need" to lust.

There is no need to lust.

There IS a need not to feel like garbage or ridiculously and constantly stressed. The only way the sex addict knows to feel good or release stress is through lusting. 

He LEARNT it. So now he needs to learn new methods. 

I think this may be quite powerful for some. For if you see "acting out" as the natural way to fight stress, no wonder you'll feel triggered when things are going tough. 

There doesn't have to be a connection between stress and lust. You just taught yourself that there is one.

Peace 




Hope that was somewhat clear. 

Ihavenostrength wrote on 21 Feb 2017 20:11:


I think you're on to something big here.
I always thought it WAS a buildup of sexual tension...
But you make a strong point.
Can you please continue this train of thought?

Also, I got lost on the Exercising, singing, vampire thing. What was meant in that paragraph? Thanks.

#76
Ihavenostrength wrote on 21 Feb 2017 20:11:


Shteeble wrote on 22 Feb 2017 04:40:



Ihavenostrength wrote on 22 Feb 2017 05:17:

Yep I do, 

Yes, of course masturbating myself to fantasy women (or even to fantasy about my own wife) is forever gonna be an obstacle to real closeness and love.

But Meier seems to be leading to an assumption that if one had a better relationship w his wife and really loved her then he'd probably be able to quit resorting to porn and masturbating himself. I may be wrong of course, but that's how it reads, to me.

While I certainly can't speak for sinners, I can speak for many of the addicts I know and for myself, and say that I find that theory lacking. And I know that a person can improve their relationship with their wives (and even with Hashem) in some respects even though they are still masturbating and using porn on a semi-regular basis. Hey, 'sheva yipol tzaddik' is all about that very fact, right?
Sure, they will not get that far, but they will surely make progress! And progress is very nice....I think we can all agree on that one. But it begs the question again: So what?

To me, the question was, "Is this kind of progress what I want?" - and even if I wished I could settle for it, I eventually couldn't tolerate it any longer.

Hakolhevel wrote on 21 Feb 2017 03:02:

Great Q, but hey, I never said GYE relationships "don't work" glatt like that. Look again, and sorry I wasn't clear.

 wrote that posting here definitely often works! Just until the weirdness of it wears off and the person loses that 'thing' that was making him hesitant to post in the first place. Soon after that happens, the limited relationships established here will start to become insufficient. Opening up by posting, will no longer be a change. His posting will start to revert into the same isolation he had before, and eventually it will become predictable, nearly meaningless chatter. That may take a year, but it usually takes a few months, tops, I think. 

So even for addicts, I hold tremendously from GYE. Just not as the solution. It's tremendously instructive, yes. It shows the path - and for this reason I have over a hundred contacts in my phone of guys I originally saved under the G-file in my cell, who after a few months or years I had to move over to the S-file in the address book because (1) they were addicts and (2) they switched from GYE to real 12-step meetings in various S-fellowships or started getting real, good therapy. The overwhelming majority of them are doing very well, b"H.

Frum yidden have far better statistics of devotion to and success in recovery than SA and AA as a whole, b"H, I have found. I believe this is mainly not a neshoma thing, but rather because culturally we have so much more family and community stability, so we usually have so much more to lose than the Joe-in-the-street-American does. 

Did I respond to your point?

Day 11: Ever felt like you needed to release the tension that has been building within you? The longer you've been holding out the more urgent it seems? 

I used to think this was a build up of sexual tension (energy) and if you weren't going to release it through "acting out" you had to find another way to "let it out", if you wanted to stay sane. 

I now think that's a mistake. 

There's a build up of tension all right. It's a neutral tension though. It's created from your worries, your stresses and the bumps you hit in your everyday life. 

There's nothing sexual about it. 

"Acting out" just happens to be a really easy way to release it (and did I mention affordable? Ok don't shoot me, only joking). 

Why does this matter? 

Well firstly, I never said it did, so there! 

I think it does matter a bit though.

For if you feel stressed, feel like you need a release and you recognize that the uncomfortability that you are experiencing has nothing to do with refraining from acting out, it takes away alot of excuses. It shoots just one more arrow into the "I need to" illusion.

Exercising or singing for the addict (I'm not using this word in the clinical sense, just using it for someone who finds it hard not to engage in PMO) are not like soymilk to a non-lactose person. It's not like animal blood for a vampire.(Vampires prefer human blood, they also don't exist).  

Other stress releasers are just as "genuine" as acting out. They require a bit more effort but are more effective as well. 

If you managed to read all that, then you are totally awesome.

Have a great day!

Dov:
I can't agree more to what you said let me know if I understood correctly

While a non addict might get what he needs from this "fake" honesty/opening up and that's fine however it does not make it real and that is why for others and especially addicts it does not work and can possibly make it worse.

I should count my blessings that it seems that this all I need....Ble"h

cordnoy wrote on 21 Feb 2017 16:31:

because the the endorsements that he got is very weak

ZDuvid wrote on 21 Feb 2017 16:13:

Good question.

This site used to have names of therapists.
I looked now and cannot find any.
Perhaps it is not on mobile or perhaps I just don't know where to look (although I was good at finding other stuff).

I do see that they are invested heavily in the relief organization, so perhaps they outsourced it all to the experts.

Try relief and see what they say, or post a comment on matzav askingI for more info.

Keep us posted please.

any read this? whats this therapeutic approach? 
http://matzav.com/a-frum-internet-addict-2/

mussarman318 wrote on 21 Feb 2017 14:01:

If you're a real addict, it might not be enough. But you don't sound so addicted

Hi Markz 21,
Thanks for your response.
As far as mussar I am hopeful that learning mussar as Reb Yisroel Salanter envisioned e.g. With a feeling,review and analysis a loud voice you know Yeshiva style mussar could help with this as it has helped me with outer middos problems over the years such as jealousy.
However truth to be told when it comes to addiction as like this I feel it may not be enough...